Monthly Archives: December 2011

December 31, 2011 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 14 Messages in 5 Topics

 

    "Axis of Love SF, Shona Gochenaur" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 07:58PM -0800  

    sory i dont understand your reply? Are you frustrated becuase indoor
    meds are very expensive and your local co op has more indoor than
    outdoor? And i agree why do we think we can outwit mother nature? Can
    you explain your coment? I just want to understand .
     
     

    Shona Gochenaur
    Executive Director
    Axis of Love SF
    http://www.facebook.com/axisoflove
    http://www.twitter.com/axisoflove

     

    Elwood Troxel <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 02:16PM -0800  

    im a patient whose fed up with the feds

     

 

    Mickey Martin <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 10:11AM -0800  

    There are three viable initiatives for cannabis legalization that are bidding to make the ballot in California, and the honest truth is that we cannot afford to split the effort for legalization into three camps, all fighting for resources and energy. We must choose one effort to rally around and all put our best foot forward if we have any chance of making the ballot and actually passing a cannabis freedom initiative in 2012. Any of the initiatives are better than what we have now by a long shot.
     
    Yesterday I put up a poll to see what people thought and as of this minute here is where it stands:
     
    California Cannabis Hemp and Health Initiative 40.7%

    Regulate Marijuana Like Wine 14.8%

    Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act of 2012 42.6%
    None, because I suck and think people should be in prison for a safe, enjoyable and helpful plant. 1.9%
     
    Obviously this is a far from a scientific poll, and maybe "Like Wine" people just do not read my site because of my criticisms of their leadership, but it does show that there is a definite split out there. 
     
    I personally like Repeal Cannabis Prohibition's language, and I have always liked Jack's initiative (CCHH2012); so I would hope that it would be one of those two efforts that we could all come together and rally behind. But if our community decided "Like Wine" was the best opportunity, I could surely put my support there and help get it on the ballot. I am for any and all efforts that make cannabis freedom a reality for adult enjoyable use. I think someway, somehow, we must make a decision as a movement and make our move. We must all throw our money in one hat and begin the uphill battle to get something on the ballot for 2012.
     
    The alternative is grim. Should we continue to split our time, energy and resources among the three efforts there is no doubt in my mind that all will fail miserably and all will be for naught. Should this happen it will likely be at least 2016 before we have another real opportunity to pass a sensible initiative. I think Californians are ready in 2012 for real reform, and this election cycle is our best bet to make it happen for some time. In order to do that, we must choose one path and all focus on doing whatever it takes to get it on the ballot. As the New Year comes the clock will begin ticking pretty rapidly, and if we are really going to do this it is time to shit or get off the pot.
     
    I think the folks who claim to be leaders in this movement need to get all of the proponents for these efforts in one room and lead them to find the best effort to focus on. I do not care if you have to do rock, paper, scissors to figure it out; but it needs to be figured out and it needs to be figured out NOW. If the leaders of this movement cannot inspire these groups to come together and make a real effort towards reform, instead of three weak-ass efforts towards failure, then I think it is simply time for new leadership at all levels. This is our time to shine, and if those who are in the position to use their platform to organize and inspire do not, then they should simply be removed from the equation. 
     
    This is not the time for the egotistical bullshit "my way or the highway" efforts that have paralyzed this movement for decades. It is time to do what is right and work hard to make the world a better place for cannabis users period. If we cannot do that then we are ultimately destined for failure. I will simply not put forth my time and energy to watch three different monkeys try to fuck the same football. 
     
    So I am looking at each and every one of these proponents and begging them to come together for the good of our movement, and for the good of our friends and neighbors. We are so close to pushing this thing over the edge and we must seize the moment. Anything less is simple failure and will be a huge disappointment. Do what is right and do it now. There is no more time to waste if there is any chance of success in 2012. That is just the facts. 
    One initiative. One effort. One movement for real change in how our society deals with cannabis. Let us do this….
     
    Mickey Martin
    T-Comp Consulting Director
    www.cannabiswarrior.com
    www.tcompconsulting.com
    s..s@a2c2.us
    (phone#-removed)
    http://twitter.com/CANNABISconsult
     
     
    ***The views expressed in this communication are not necessarily the views of T-Comp Consulting, Tainted Compassion, West Coast Cannabis, Cannabis Warrior any other group I am affiliated with.***

     

 

    Frank Lucido MD <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 01:23PM -0800  

    On Dec 30, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Mickey Martin wrote:
     
    > None, because I suck and think people should be in prison for a safe, enjoyable and helpful plant. 1.9%
     
    > Obviously this is a far from a scientific poll, and maybe "Like Wine" people just do not read my site because of my criticisms of their leadership, but it does show that there is a definite split out there.
     
    > I personally like Repeal Cannabis Prohibition's language, and I have always liked Jack's initiative (CCHH2012); so I would hope that it would be one of those two efforts that we could all come together and rally behind.
     
     
     
    I agree Mickey,
    All 3 initiatives are better than what we have now.
    In fact I would vote for any of the 3 initiatives that makes the ballot, and encourage others to do so.
     
    However, they are unlikely to all make the ballot.
    My personal order of preference:
    1. RCPA Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act of 2012
    2. CCHHI California Cannabis and Hemp Heath Initiative 2012
    3. RMLW Regulate Marijuana Like Wine
     
     
    My position is:
    1st choice:
    RCPA2012 is true Repeal, with no frills added that will take away 1% here, and 2% there, etc.
     
    RMLW asks for "half the world", and will severely limits it electability, so is my 3rd choice. Also much of it will be pre-empted federally.
     
    My 2nd choice is CCHHI because if you're going to ask for the world, ask for EVERYTHING that we should want in the world.
    Don't ask for half.
     
     
    RCPA just wants the world off our backs.
    Simple, no frillls.
    2 pages, less than 900 words.
    Nothing the feds can pre-empt.
    http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/initiatives/pdfs/i989_11-0046_(repeal_cannabis).pdf
     
     
     
    The letter below from Bill Panzer Esq. will be going out to all of our lists in the next week, and we hope you will come on board.
    Our signature and fundraising drive is about to begin.
    We will begin gathering signatures in January with both paid signature gatherers and a motivated volunteer force.
    Stay tuned.
    DrFrank
     
    PS: Long live Jack!
    and thanks for carrying the torch Mikey J !
     
     
     
    Frank H. Lucido MD
    Family Practice since 1979
    Medical Cannabis Consultation
    Expert Witness
    2300 Durant Avenue
    Berkeley Ca 94704
    (phone#-removed) (by appointment only)
    www.DrFrankLucido.com
    www.AIMLegal.org
    www.DrFrankLucido.blogspot.com
    Michigan office:(phone#-removed)
    (24 hr message line)
     
    Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act of 2012
     
    Full text at:
    http://drfranklucido.blogspot.com/2011/10/repeal-cannabis-prohibition-act-of-2012_16.html
     
     
     
     
    December 30, 2011
    Dear Cannabis Reform Advocate,
     
    We invite you to join us on our historic journey to end cannabis prohibition and embark on a new world where cannabis use is no longer a crime. 2011 marked the 100-year prohibition of cannabis, and the Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act of 2012 (RCPA 2012) will ensure that it is the last. It will take an enormous effort by cannabis reform advocates like yourself, and/or your organization, to make cannabis freedom a reality in California, and eventually the nation. Your support and generous donation ensure that we have the resources to end cannabis prohibition once and for all.
     
    RCPA 2012ʼs goal is to raise at least $1000 from 100 major supporters and organizations to get the campaign started on the right foot. Can you help us to reach this goal? By donating to this effort you will be using your resources to end the disastrous policy of cannabis prohibition, and those resources will be used to put the best initiative on the ballot to accomplish this monumental task. We owe it to our communities, to our friends and families, and to ourselves to put our best foot forward and ensure cannabis prohibition is finally repealed in 2012.
     
    What RCPA does for Californians:
    * Repeals harmful and unfair criminal penalties for cannabis for adults 19-years or older.
    * Ensures strict controls are in place to avoid distribution to minors and discourage impaired driving.
    * Allows for the California Cannabis Commission to develop policies for distribution and taxation.
    * Promotes a more genuine and professional medical distribution system, maintaining all rights for qualified patients.
     
    Your donation will go a long way towards ensuring another person is never imprisoned for a safe, enjoyable and helpful plant. Millions of Californians are depending on us. We will begin gathering signatures in January with both paid signature gatherers and a motivated volunteer force. We will have until April 12th to complete the task of gathering at least 800,000 signatures of registered California voters, so it is important that we start strong and continue to build momentum. We need your help.
     
    Please donate $1000 or more now, and become a major supporter of the RCPA 2012 campaign kick off. We look forward to your partnership in this historic effort. Please help us end cannabis prohibition today.
     
    Included in this packet you will find the RCPA 2012 fact sheet and biographies of the proponents and co-chairs. We have assembled a team of legal minds, dedicated activists, and cannabis industry professionals to oversee and direct the campaign efforts, and we are happy to answer any questions you may have about the Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act of 2012. Thanks you so much for your time and your support. Together we will make history and end the failed policies of cannabis prohibition.
     
    Please contact our co-chairs, Debby Goldsberry at(phone#-removed) and Susan Soares at(phone#-removed) for information on donating, gathering signatures, organizing fundraisers, or with any questions you may have about RCPA 2012. We appreciate your time and consideration on this important matter.
     
    Sincerely,
    William G. Panzer, Esq. Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act 2012, Co-proponent
    www.RepealCannabisProhibition.org
     
     
    On Dec 30, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Mickey Martin wrote:
     

     

    "William G. Panzer" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 02:45PM -0800  

    I would welcome the opportunity to sit down with all proponents of the
    three proposed initiatives and discuss pooling resources. At a
    minimum, we should explore sharing signature gathers, "sign one, sign
    'em all". I do have a question about the electability of RMLW in that
    it doesn't regulate distribution to children the same as wine but,
    instead, reduces distribution to a child to an infraction – the
    equivalent of a parking ticket. I fear that our opposition can make
    huge points with the electorate on this issue.
     
    Bill Panzer
     
    Frank Lucido MD wrote:

     

    Lee Berger <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 04:10PM -0800  

    If you have ballot titles for all three initiatives, I encourage you to
    fundraise for polling and unite behind whichever one looks most likely
    to win.
     
    Lee Berger, Portland, OR
     
    On 12/30/2011 2:45 PM, William G. Panzer wrote:

     

 

    "Axis of Love SF, Shona Gochenaur" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 04:56PM -0800  

    i read mickeys site and it helped me not be afraid of people attacking
    my leadership and comparing me to outrageous cult leaders such as
    david koresh .what doesnt kill ya makes ya stronger.. And your
    requests to defund my charity dinner? Worked in reverse now more
    people contribute and more people who are hungry get fed . Its a
    running joke now that i have seven wifes plus my bfriend but certianly
    not for the thin skinned it could of realy hurt a tender soul . Sad
    that your poll has closed becuase we all at the comunity center were
    going to vote for the repeal probhibiton . We think its the best vote
    for low income patients and has less damage and restrictions to our
    safe access.
     
     

    Shona Gochenaur
    Executive Director
    Axis of Love SF
    http://www.facebook.com/axisoflove
    http://www.twitter.com/axisoflove

     

    Steve Kubby <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 02:29AM -0800  

    http://www.laketahoenews.net/2011/12/opinion-time-to-control-marijuana-odor-in-south-tahoe/
     
    Opinion: Time to control marijuana odor in South Tahoe
     
    A citywide voter initiative to control marijuana odor and rewrite the rules for cultivation was filed Dec. 29 with the city clerk. The city attorney has 15 days to issue a Title and Summary so the signature gathering process can begin.
     
    Since cities already have the power to regulate odors in residential areas, we are giving up nothing and getting back privacy and protection for patients and caregivers in return.
     
    I just wish you could have seen the "deer caught in the headlights" look on the city clerk and city attorney when I laid the completed initiative and corresponding paperwork on them — all prepared perfectly, thanks to help from Weston Mickey. When I mentioned that we might go for 15% of the total, about 1200 sigs, in order to force a special election, I swear I could hear them gulp. Seriously, there is nothing like filing a citywide voter initiative to generate the friendliest response by the city that I have ever seen. Oh, I should also mention that the city attorney seemed genuinely shocked that there was, in his words, "only one sentence about regulating the cultivation of marijuana."
     
    Given that cities up and down the state are seeking severe limitation on home cultivation, a citywide voter initiative is the fastest, least expensive alternative path to restoring our rights and protecting our privacy.
     
    –SK

     

 

    Dave Hodges <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 11:58AM -0800  

    In addition to proving "for-profit", the prosecution was able to convince
    Juror's Cannabis Collectives can not make "sales", they are only able to
    "make a reimbursement to the collective itself".
     
    *"the most damning piece of evidence was the defendants' meticulous
    bookkeeping." *- A Juror from the case*
    *
    ==============================
    *Juror: Prosecution Proved Profit; Dispensary Bookkeeping "Buried" Byron &
    Grumbine
    *by Greggory Moore | Staff Reports | 12.29.11
    Source: Long Beach Post, http://www.lbpost.com/news/greggorymoore/12997
     
    *2:40pm *| A juror in the just-completed trial of Joe Grumbine and Joe
    Byron says that the pair's own meticulous paperwork showed their three
    medicinal-marijuana collectives to be turning a profit, while failing to
    show that profit being put back into the collectives.
     
    The juror, who calls himself "a proponent" of medicinal cannabis and says
    he has several acquaintances with doctor recommendations to use cannabis,
    spoke with the Long Beach Post on the condition of anonymity. We'll call
    him 'Juro.'
     
    "I'm sympathetic to the cause," Juro says. "I was a '70s kid. That should
    tell you a lot about my background towards the idea of using marijuana. […]
    At first I was looking at it [i.e., the charges] that this was a big shell
    game that the City was throwing on. […] They had to literally prove to me
    that these guys messed up. And unfortunately, they proved to me that these
    guys messed up. […] I'm a proponent for this. I felt really bad having to
    put down a guilty verdict on this. But because of what they showed me and
    what I was told to follow, that was the only verdict I could give them."
     
    According to Juro, the most damning piece of evidence was the defendants'
    meticulous bookkeeping.
     
    "Unfortunately, they kept really good records. Their records are what sunk
    them for us," Juro says. "All [their] paperwork was just immaculate, and
    they were showing at the end-of-the-day's sales report, the very last line
    there was, 'Profit Percentage.' Every day they were writing 48 to 50
    percent profit. That's a lot of money per day. Their paperwork was pretty
    much showing us that, yes, they were making a profit. Now, they weren't
    showing what they were doing with any of this money. They said they were
    doing things with it, but they had nothing — no paperwork, nothing —
    saying that they were putting money into this, putting money over here into
    this, putting money towards some cancer project, or anything like that.
    They didn't put any of that down. […] When they showed the one deal on the
    profit margin, that right there is pretty much what sealed their fate on
    any kind of legal sales. […] If the paperwork wasn't so good, they might
    have been able to get away with it,"
     
    During the trial, the prosecution seemingly ran together the question of
    whether all storefront sales are illegal (an interpretation of the law that
    then-State Attorney General Jerry Brown contradicts in his 2008 guidelines
    — about which Juro confirms the jury never got hear) and whether
    for-profit sales are illegal (which is undisputed). As a result, Juro came
    away from the legal arguments believing that storefront dispensaries are
    disallowed by state medpot law, but that some sales are legal, even if as
    such they are not called "sales."
     
    "In a way, [storefront dispensaries] are illegal, according to the laws
    that they have set out," Juro says. "You really shouldn't have any
    storefront deal if you're collective. […] [T]hey can make a sale to one of
    their collective members, [although] the sale wouldn't be considered an
    actual sale […] it would be more like a reimbursement to the collective
    itself,. But for the fact that the prosecution was able to prove profit…If
    they couldn't have proved that to me, in my eyes [Grumbine and Byron] would
    have been not guilty [of the charges related to sales]."
     
    Juro also says the prosecution demonstrated that the pair's three
    collectives — Fourth & Elm Natural Health Collective, 2200 Health
    Collective, and Unit D — did not function as properly organized nonprofit
    cooperatives.
     
    "They were able to prove that […] they weren't running as an actual
    cooperative, [where] every member has a say and owns that cooperative," he
    says. "[During the trial] they asked a lot of people that were members
    there, and all they could say was that they were members, [but that,] 'They
    never asked me if I could do anything for the collective, and I never asked
    them if I could do something for the collective.'"
     
    Juro also said that numerous persons who work in the three collectives
    testified that Grumbine and Byron "were running the show," which is not in
    keeping with Juro's understanding of what a collective is. "What I found is
    that a collective is owned by everybody who is a member," he says."
     
    Since Juro did not feel that terms such as collective, cooperative, and
    dispensary were adequately defined within the courtroom, contrary to Judge
    Sheldon's instructions, Juro consulted the Internet.
     
    "I had to look this stuff up," he said, "I really did, even though the
    judge said we weren't supposed to. I was really iffy on some stuff, so I
    had to look up what a collective was, I had to look up what a co-op was.
    And then I started looking at some of the California rules and regulations
    of it. And when it was proven to me that they were not an actual collective
    […] that's when my vote got changed. […] I felt compelled to do [outside
    research] because I wanted to make sure I was right on my convictions. And
    when I found out what the definitions of these things were…Because, you
    see, they never really defined those in the court. But myself, I needed to
    know. And I don't think it was that bad of a thing, because it didn't
    really sway my judgment any which way. It did let me know a few things,
    like a dispensary is a profit-driven entity, not one you can just break
    even with. […] It even states: 'A dispensary is a profit entity.'"
     
    Regarding Sheldon, Juro feels far less sure than some courtroom observers
    that the judge was biased against the defense.
     
    "He was running that court with a firm hand," Juro says. "It looked like he
    knew that he was going to have a big problem with this [trial], and he
    didn't want to make it a pony show. He did object to a lot of stuff that
    the defense threw out there — objections and stuff like that; he
    over[ruled] a lot of them. But then when the defense got up there and
    started doing their thing, he was trying to be as fair as he could. […] He
    definitely [overruled] a lot of objections that they [i.e., the
    prosecution] were throwing out. [But] he could have been biased. He looked
    like he was a person that really didn't put up with this medical thing, and
    he probably feels that it's gotten out of hand — which it really sorta
    has."
     
    Juro was unaware of Sheldon's limitation on the number of witnesses the
    defense was allowed to call, and so chalked up the disparity in number
    between prosecution and defense witnesses as a mistake by defense attorneys
    Christopher Glew and Allison Margolin.
     
    "Where the defense messed up is they didn't bring a ton of people out,"
    Juro says. "They only brought out a couple of people."
     
    Another example of Sheldon's bias alleged by many observers is a trial day
    when Sheldon had a partition erected to keep the jury from seeing the
    pro-defendant gallery. But Juro says this is a misrepresentation of what
    actually took place.
     
    "To make it easier for us to see the screen, it was moved to the opposite
    side," Juro explains. "It was not a partition between the jury and the
    audience. […] It had nothing to do with blocking out the little protesters
    that were sitting out there in the audience."
     
    Juro reports that on several occasions supporters of Grumbine and Byron
    would attempt to approach jurors in the hallway, but that other supporters
    would typically intercede — although on at least one occasion a protester
    did speak with a juror, a circumstance that was reported to Sheldon.
     
    "That's what I called them: the protesters," Juro says. "They were quite
    comical."
     
    In his final analysis, Juro says that, aside from the tax and power-theft
    charges against Byron (which Juro says were definitively proved), his
    guilty verdict came down to the question of profit — a question Byron and
    Grumbine indirectly answered in the affirmative.
     
    "I myself feel [the trial] was a total waste of taxpayers' money," Juro
    says. "If [the prosecution] had looked at my questionnaire form, they
    probably would not have picked me. […] But when I walked in there, the
    judge asked me if I could be fair. And I will be fair. […] And there was
    proof of a profit, and they're not supposed to be making a profit. […] That
    paperwork is what buried them. […] With all that thrown out at us, all we
    could say was that they're guilty."

     

December 31, 2011 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 14 Messages in 5 Topics

 

    "Axis of Love SF, Shona Gochenaur" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 07:58PM -0800  

    sory i dont understand your reply? Are you frustrated becuase indoor
    meds are very expensive and your local co op has more indoor than
    outdoor? And i agree why do we think we can outwit mother nature? Can
    you explain your coment? I just want to understand .
     
     

    Shona Gochenaur
    Executive Director
    Axis of Love SF
    http://www.facebook.com/axisoflove
    http://www.twitter.com/axisoflove

     

    Elwood Troxel <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 02:16PM -0800  

    im a patient whose fed up with the feds

     

 

    Mickey Martin <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 10:11AM -0800  

    There are three viable initiatives for cannabis legalization that are bidding to make the ballot in California, and the honest truth is that we cannot afford to split the effort for legalization into three camps, all fighting for resources and energy. We must choose one effort to rally around and all put our best foot forward if we have any chance of making the ballot and actually passing a cannabis freedom initiative in 2012. Any of the initiatives are better than what we have now by a long shot.
     
    Yesterday I put up a poll to see what people thought and as of this minute here is where it stands:
     
    California Cannabis Hemp and Health Initiative 40.7%

    Regulate Marijuana Like Wine 14.8%

    Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act of 2012 42.6%
    None, because I suck and think people should be in prison for a safe, enjoyable and helpful plant. 1.9%
     
    Obviously this is a far from a scientific poll, and maybe "Like Wine" people just do not read my site because of my criticisms of their leadership, but it does show that there is a definite split out there. 
     
    I personally like Repeal Cannabis Prohibition's language, and I have always liked Jack's initiative (CCHH2012); so I would hope that it would be one of those two efforts that we could all come together and rally behind. But if our community decided "Like Wine" was the best opportunity, I could surely put my support there and help get it on the ballot. I am for any and all efforts that make cannabis freedom a reality for adult enjoyable use. I think someway, somehow, we must make a decision as a movement and make our move. We must all throw our money in one hat and begin the uphill battle to get something on the ballot for 2012.
     
    The alternative is grim. Should we continue to split our time, energy and resources among the three efforts there is no doubt in my mind that all will fail miserably and all will be for naught. Should this happen it will likely be at least 2016 before we have another real opportunity to pass a sensible initiative. I think Californians are ready in 2012 for real reform, and this election cycle is our best bet to make it happen for some time. In order to do that, we must choose one path and all focus on doing whatever it takes to get it on the ballot. As the New Year comes the clock will begin ticking pretty rapidly, and if we are really going to do this it is time to shit or get off the pot.
     
    I think the folks who claim to be leaders in this movement need to get all of the proponents for these efforts in one room and lead them to find the best effort to focus on. I do not care if you have to do rock, paper, scissors to figure it out; but it needs to be figured out and it needs to be figured out NOW. If the leaders of this movement cannot inspire these groups to come together and make a real effort towards reform, instead of three weak-ass efforts towards failure, then I think it is simply time for new leadership at all levels. This is our time to shine, and if those who are in the position to use their platform to organize and inspire do not, then they should simply be removed from the equation. 
     
    This is not the time for the egotistical bullshit "my way or the highway" efforts that have paralyzed this movement for decades. It is time to do what is right and work hard to make the world a better place for cannabis users period. If we cannot do that then we are ultimately destined for failure. I will simply not put forth my time and energy to watch three different monkeys try to fuck the same football. 
     
    So I am looking at each and every one of these proponents and begging them to come together for the good of our movement, and for the good of our friends and neighbors. We are so close to pushing this thing over the edge and we must seize the moment. Anything less is simple failure and will be a huge disappointment. Do what is right and do it now. There is no more time to waste if there is any chance of success in 2012. That is just the facts. 
    One initiative. One effort. One movement for real change in how our society deals with cannabis. Let us do this….
     
    Mickey Martin
    T-Comp Consulting Director
    www.cannabiswarrior.com
    www.tcompconsulting.com
    s..s@a2c2.us
    (phone#-removed)
    http://twitter.com/CANNABISconsult
     
     
    ***The views expressed in this communication are not necessarily the views of T-Comp Consulting, Tainted Compassion, West Coast Cannabis, Cannabis Warrior any other group I am affiliated with.***

     

 

    Frank Lucido MD <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 01:23PM -0800  

    On Dec 30, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Mickey Martin wrote:
     
    > None, because I suck and think people should be in prison for a safe, enjoyable and helpful plant. 1.9%
     
    > Obviously this is a far from a scientific poll, and maybe "Like Wine" people just do not read my site because of my criticisms of their leadership, but it does show that there is a definite split out there.
     
    > I personally like Repeal Cannabis Prohibition's language, and I have always liked Jack's initiative (CCHH2012); so I would hope that it would be one of those two efforts that we could all come together and rally behind.
     
     
     
    I agree Mickey,
    All 3 initiatives are better than what we have now.
    In fact I would vote for any of the 3 initiatives that makes the ballot, and encourage others to do so.
     
    However, they are unlikely to all make the ballot.
    My personal order of preference:
    1. RCPA Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act of 2012
    2. CCHHI California Cannabis and Hemp Heath Initiative 2012
    3. RMLW Regulate Marijuana Like Wine
     
     
    My position is:
    1st choice:
    RCPA2012 is true Repeal, with no frills added that will take away 1% here, and 2% there, etc.
     
    RMLW asks for "half the world", and will severely limits it electability, so is my 3rd choice. Also much of it will be pre-empted federally.
     
    My 2nd choice is CCHHI because if you're going to ask for the world, ask for EVERYTHING that we should want in the world.
    Don't ask for half.
     
     
    RCPA just wants the world off our backs.
    Simple, no frillls.
    2 pages, less than 900 words.
    Nothing the feds can pre-empt.
    http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/initiatives/pdfs/i989_11-0046_(repeal_cannabis).pdf
     
     
     
    The letter below from Bill Panzer Esq. will be going out to all of our lists in the next week, and we hope you will come on board.
    Our signature and fundraising drive is about to begin.
    We will begin gathering signatures in January with both paid signature gatherers and a motivated volunteer force.
    Stay tuned.
    DrFrank
     
    PS: Long live Jack!
    and thanks for carrying the torch Mikey J !
     
     
     
    Frank H. Lucido MD
    Family Practice since 1979
    Medical Cannabis Consultation
    Expert Witness
    2300 Durant Avenue
    Berkeley Ca 94704
    (phone#-removed) (by appointment only)
    www.DrFrankLucido.com
    www.AIMLegal.org
    www.DrFrankLucido.blogspot.com
    Michigan office:(phone#-removed)
    (24 hr message line)
     
    Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act of 2012
     
    Full text at:
    http://drfranklucido.blogspot.com/2011/10/repeal-cannabis-prohibition-act-of-2012_16.html
     
     
     
     
    December 30, 2011
    Dear Cannabis Reform Advocate,
     
    We invite you to join us on our historic journey to end cannabis prohibition and embark on a new world where cannabis use is no longer a crime. 2011 marked the 100-year prohibition of cannabis, and the Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act of 2012 (RCPA 2012) will ensure that it is the last. It will take an enormous effort by cannabis reform advocates like yourself, and/or your organization, to make cannabis freedom a reality in California, and eventually the nation. Your support and generous donation ensure that we have the resources to end cannabis prohibition once and for all.
     
    RCPA 2012ʼs goal is to raise at least $1000 from 100 major supporters and organizations to get the campaign started on the right foot. Can you help us to reach this goal? By donating to this effort you will be using your resources to end the disastrous policy of cannabis prohibition, and those resources will be used to put the best initiative on the ballot to accomplish this monumental task. We owe it to our communities, to our friends and families, and to ourselves to put our best foot forward and ensure cannabis prohibition is finally repealed in 2012.
     
    What RCPA does for Californians:
    * Repeals harmful and unfair criminal penalties for cannabis for adults 19-years or older.
    * Ensures strict controls are in place to avoid distribution to minors and discourage impaired driving.
    * Allows for the California Cannabis Commission to develop policies for distribution and taxation.
    * Promotes a more genuine and professional medical distribution system, maintaining all rights for qualified patients.
     
    Your donation will go a long way towards ensuring another person is never imprisoned for a safe, enjoyable and helpful plant. Millions of Californians are depending on us. We will begin gathering signatures in January with both paid signature gatherers and a motivated volunteer force. We will have until April 12th to complete the task of gathering at least 800,000 signatures of registered California voters, so it is important that we start strong and continue to build momentum. We need your help.
     
    Please donate $1000 or more now, and become a major supporter of the RCPA 2012 campaign kick off. We look forward to your partnership in this historic effort. Please help us end cannabis prohibition today.
     
    Included in this packet you will find the RCPA 2012 fact sheet and biographies of the proponents and co-chairs. We have assembled a team of legal minds, dedicated activists, and cannabis industry professionals to oversee and direct the campaign efforts, and we are happy to answer any questions you may have about the Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act of 2012. Thanks you so much for your time and your support. Together we will make history and end the failed policies of cannabis prohibition.
     
    Please contact our co-chairs, Debby Goldsberry at(phone#-removed) and Susan Soares at(phone#-removed) for information on donating, gathering signatures, organizing fundraisers, or with any questions you may have about RCPA 2012. We appreciate your time and consideration on this important matter.
     
    Sincerely,
    William G. Panzer, Esq. Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act 2012, Co-proponent
    www.RepealCannabisProhibition.org
     
     
    On Dec 30, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Mickey Martin wrote:
     

     

    "William G. Panzer" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 02:45PM -0800  

    I would welcome the opportunity to sit down with all proponents of the
    three proposed initiatives and discuss pooling resources. At a
    minimum, we should explore sharing signature gathers, "sign one, sign
    'em all". I do have a question about the electability of RMLW in that
    it doesn't regulate distribution to children the same as wine but,
    instead, reduces distribution to a child to an infraction – the
    equivalent of a parking ticket. I fear that our opposition can make
    huge points with the electorate on this issue.
     
    Bill Panzer
     
    Frank Lucido MD wrote:

     

    Lee Berger <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 04:10PM -0800  

    If you have ballot titles for all three initiatives, I encourage you to
    fundraise for polling and unite behind whichever one looks most likely
    to win.
     
    Lee Berger, Portland, OR
     
    On 12/30/2011 2:45 PM, William G. Panzer wrote:

     

 

    "Axis of Love SF, Shona Gochenaur" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 04:56PM -0800  

    i read mickeys site and it helped me not be afraid of people attacking
    my leadership and comparing me to outrageous cult leaders such as
    david koresh .what doesnt kill ya makes ya stronger.. And your
    requests to defund my charity dinner? Worked in reverse now more
    people contribute and more people who are hungry get fed . Its a
    running joke now that i have seven wifes plus my bfriend but certianly
    not for the thin skinned it could of realy hurt a tender soul . Sad
    that your poll has closed becuase we all at the comunity center were
    going to vote for the repeal probhibiton . We think its the best vote
    for low income patients and has less damage and restrictions to our
    safe access.
     
     

    Shona Gochenaur
    Executive Director
    Axis of Love SF
    http://www.facebook.com/axisoflove
    http://www.twitter.com/axisoflove

     

    Steve Kubby <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 02:29AM -0800  

    http://www.laketahoenews.net/2011/12/opinion-time-to-control-marijuana-odor-in-south-tahoe/
     
    Opinion: Time to control marijuana odor in South Tahoe
     
    A citywide voter initiative to control marijuana odor and rewrite the rules for cultivation was filed Dec. 29 with the city clerk. The city attorney has 15 days to issue a Title and Summary so the signature gathering process can begin.
     
    Since cities already have the power to regulate odors in residential areas, we are giving up nothing and getting back privacy and protection for patients and caregivers in return.
     
    I just wish you could have seen the "deer caught in the headlights" look on the city clerk and city attorney when I laid the completed initiative and corresponding paperwork on them — all prepared perfectly, thanks to help from Weston Mickey. When I mentioned that we might go for 15% of the total, about 1200 sigs, in order to force a special election, I swear I could hear them gulp. Seriously, there is nothing like filing a citywide voter initiative to generate the friendliest response by the city that I have ever seen. Oh, I should also mention that the city attorney seemed genuinely shocked that there was, in his words, "only one sentence about regulating the cultivation of marijuana."
     
    Given that cities up and down the state are seeking severe limitation on home cultivation, a citywide voter initiative is the fastest, least expensive alternative path to restoring our rights and protecting our privacy.
     
    –SK

     

 

    Dave Hodges <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 30 11:58AM -0800  

    In addition to proving "for-profit", the prosecution was able to convince
    Juror's Cannabis Collectives can not make "sales", they are only able to
    "make a reimbursement to the collective itself".
     
    *"the most damning piece of evidence was the defendants' meticulous
    bookkeeping." *- A Juror from the case*
    *
    ==============================
    *Juror: Prosecution Proved Profit; Dispensary Bookkeeping "Buried" Byron &
    Grumbine
    *by Greggory Moore | Staff Reports | 12.29.11
    Source: Long Beach Post, http://www.lbpost.com/news/greggorymoore/12997
     
    *2:40pm *| A juror in the just-completed trial of Joe Grumbine and Joe
    Byron says that the pair's own meticulous paperwork showed their three
    medicinal-marijuana collectives to be turning a profit, while failing to
    show that profit being put back into the collectives.
     
    The juror, who calls himself "a proponent" of medicinal cannabis and says
    he has several acquaintances with doctor recommendations to use cannabis,
    spoke with the Long Beach Post on the condition of anonymity. We'll call
    him 'Juro.'
     
    "I'm sympathetic to the cause," Juro says. "I was a '70s kid. That should
    tell you a lot about my background towards the idea of using marijuana. […]
    At first I was looking at it [i.e., the charges] that this was a big shell
    game that the City was throwing on. […] They had to literally prove to me
    that these guys messed up. And unfortunately, they proved to me that these
    guys messed up. […] I'm a proponent for this. I felt really bad having to
    put down a guilty verdict on this. But because of what they showed me and
    what I was told to follow, that was the only verdict I could give them."
     
    According to Juro, the most damning piece of evidence was the defendants'
    meticulous bookkeeping.
     
    "Unfortunately, they kept really good records. Their records are what sunk
    them for us," Juro says. "All [their] paperwork was just immaculate, and
    they were showing at the end-of-the-day's sales report, the very last line
    there was, 'Profit Percentage.' Every day they were writing 48 to 50
    percent profit. That's a lot of money per day. Their paperwork was pretty
    much showing us that, yes, they were making a profit. Now, they weren't
    showing what they were doing with any of this money. They said they were
    doing things with it, but they had nothing — no paperwork, nothing —
    saying that they were putting money into this, putting money over here into
    this, putting money towards some cancer project, or anything like that.
    They didn't put any of that down. […] When they showed the one deal on the
    profit margin, that right there is pretty much what sealed their fate on
    any kind of legal sales. […] If the paperwork wasn't so good, they might
    have been able to get away with it,"
     
    During the trial, the prosecution seemingly ran together the question of
    whether all storefront sales are illegal (an interpretation of the law that
    then-State Attorney General Jerry Brown contradicts in his 2008 guidelines
    — about which Juro confirms the jury never got hear) and whether
    for-profit sales are illegal (which is undisputed). As a result, Juro came
    away from the legal arguments believing that storefront dispensaries are
    disallowed by state medpot law, but that some sales are legal, even if as
    such they are not called "sales."
     
    "In a way, [storefront dispensaries] are illegal, according to the laws
    that they have set out," Juro says. "You really shouldn't have any
    storefront deal if you're collective. […] [T]hey can make a sale to one of
    their collective members, [although] the sale wouldn't be considered an
    actual sale […] it would be more like a reimbursement to the collective
    itself,. But for the fact that the prosecution was able to prove profit…If
    they couldn't have proved that to me, in my eyes [Grumbine and Byron] would
    have been not guilty [of the charges related to sales]."
     
    Juro also says the prosecution demonstrated that the pair's three
    collectives — Fourth & Elm Natural Health Collective, 2200 Health
    Collective, and Unit D — did not function as properly organized nonprofit
    cooperatives.
     
    "They were able to prove that […] they weren't running as an actual
    cooperative, [where] every member has a say and owns that cooperative," he
    says. "[During the trial] they asked a lot of people that were members
    there, and all they could say was that they were members, [but that,] 'They
    never asked me if I could do anything for the collective, and I never asked
    them if I could do something for the collective.'"
     
    Juro also said that numerous persons who work in the three collectives
    testified that Grumbine and Byron "were running the show," which is not in
    keeping with Juro's understanding of what a collective is. "What I found is
    that a collective is owned by everybody who is a member," he says."
     
    Since Juro did not feel that terms such as collective, cooperative, and
    dispensary were adequately defined within the courtroom, contrary to Judge
    Sheldon's instructions, Juro consulted the Internet.
     
    "I had to look this stuff up," he said, "I really did, even though the
    judge said we weren't supposed to. I was really iffy on some stuff, so I
    had to look up what a collective was, I had to look up what a co-op was.
    And then I started looking at some of the California rules and regulations
    of it. And when it was proven to me that they were not an actual collective
    […] that's when my vote got changed. […] I felt compelled to do [outside
    research] because I wanted to make sure I was right on my convictions. And
    when I found out what the definitions of these things were…Because, you
    see, they never really defined those in the court. But myself, I needed to
    know. And I don't think it was that bad of a thing, because it didn't
    really sway my judgment any which way. It did let me know a few things,
    like a dispensary is a profit-driven entity, not one you can just break
    even with. […] It even states: 'A dispensary is a profit entity.'"
     
    Regarding Sheldon, Juro feels far less sure than some courtroom observers
    that the judge was biased against the defense.
     
    "He was running that court with a firm hand," Juro says. "It looked like he
    knew that he was going to have a big problem with this [trial], and he
    didn't want to make it a pony show. He did object to a lot of stuff that
    the defense threw out there — objections and stuff like that; he
    over[ruled] a lot of them. But then when the defense got up there and
    started doing their thing, he was trying to be as fair as he could. […] He
    definitely [overruled] a lot of objections that they [i.e., the
    prosecution] were throwing out. [But] he could have been biased. He looked
    like he was a person that really didn't put up with this medical thing, and
    he probably feels that it's gotten out of hand — which it really sorta
    has."
     
    Juro was unaware of Sheldon's limitation on the number of witnesses the
    defense was allowed to call, and so chalked up the disparity in number
    between prosecution and defense witnesses as a mistake by defense attorneys
    Christopher Glew and Allison Margolin.
     
    "Where the defense messed up is they didn't bring a ton of people out,"
    Juro says. "They only brought out a couple of people."
     
    Another example of Sheldon's bias alleged by many observers is a trial day
    when Sheldon had a partition erected to keep the jury from seeing the
    pro-defendant gallery. But Juro says this is a misrepresentation of what
    actually took place.
     
    "To make it easier for us to see the screen, it was moved to the opposite
    side," Juro explains. "It was not a partition between the jury and the
    audience. […] It had nothing to do with blocking out the little protesters
    that were sitting out there in the audience."
     
    Juro reports that on several occasions supporters of Grumbine and Byron
    would attempt to approach jurors in the hallway, but that other supporters
    would typically intercede — although on at least one occasion a protester
    did speak with a juror, a circumstance that was reported to Sheldon.
     
    "That's what I called them: the protesters," Juro says. "They were quite
    comical."
     
    In his final analysis, Juro says that, aside from the tax and power-theft
    charges against Byron (which Juro says were definitively proved), his
    guilty verdict came down to the question of profit — a question Byron and
    Grumbine indirectly answered in the affirmative.
     
    "I myself feel [the trial] was a total waste of taxpayers' money," Juro
    says. "If [the prosecution] had looked at my questionnaire form, they
    probably would not have picked me. […] But when I walked in there, the
    judge asked me if I could be fair. And I will be fair. […] And there was
    proof of a profit, and they're not supposed to be making a profit. […] That
    paperwork is what buried them. […] With all that thrown out at us, all we
    could say was that they're guilty."

     

December 30, 2011 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 5 Messages in 4 Topics

    "martinvictor" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 29 10:53AM -0800  

    Hi Joe..
     
    I understand your case was a state case,, was it not?
     

     
    There are many issue out there,, and it's really a crazy time.. since we
    have been around this, everyone has always stated that the feds are the ten
    tons elephant in the room, anybody that has gotten into this has always
    known that there are absolutely no legal way of federally using this plant..
    the state laws states exactly one thing… when you try to circumvent what
    that law states, that is when you're in state trouble….
     

     
    This movement is torn in half.. those whom utilize for medical and those for
    legalization..
     
    Until the state laws change then there is nothing we can do but abide by
    them.. and we will continue having this issue until it is changed.. and
    there are people in high places that are trying to do just that..
     

     
    Joe.. if you need to talk.. you know my email..and we still have your
    ladder.. loll….
     
    its hard on any person whom has been found guilty in the court of law.. and
    it really changes your view on your surroundings..
     

     
    and for those of you.. this is nothing personal.. and I have my views and I
    am entitle to it just like anyone on this list.. and Joe.. so sorry that
    your trials and tribulations and options on the way you have been treated..
    but I am not mother Teresa.. and I am not a saint to say the least.. and if
    the federal whom knows about us.. tell us to close our house.. and tell us
    to stop growing for ourselves and 3 others..I would..
     

     
    For I will allow those whom are in the high seat of the cannabis movement to
    fight this fight.. and hope for the more positive note on this issue..
    Repeal……
     

     
    peace to you Joe and your family and to those whom follow you..
     
    Lavonne.
     

     

     

     
    Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 9:01 AM
     

     
    to those that have the opinion that their way is ok and others are not
    because of the current status of state law I only have these two words to
    say "Federal Law" it's kind of funny that when the feds come down on
    anyone, we all of a sudden get "religion" and understand why prohibition is
    so wrong.
     
    Lavonne, I only hope the feds don't get wind of your "association of
    patients" growing a plant considered illegal by your federal government.
     

     
    they won't understand any more than the judge in my court……..
     

     
    peace out
     

     
    On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:30 AM, lavonne victor <s..s@a2c2.us>
    wrote:
     
     
    We shall see.. i have been hearing this ever since the store fronts have
    been in place… 20 years is a very long time.. that i do know and
    appriciate.. but time will tell what happens next…Prop 19 did not pass..
    now there is more initatives on the board.. still trying to put away with
    the medical marijuana laws to fit the needs of comeralized business… ….
    instead of the patients needs to medical use.. as i said.. we shall see what
    happens next.. this has been going on for years on end to get marijuana
    legalized … the only thing i can see is Rescheduling cannabis for medical
    purposes only.. not for everyone to utalizes… maybe we should make all
    drugs available and make them all legalized?… this has been going on for
    centruries.. since i can remember..
     

     
    anyway.. good luck.. but if it interfeers with our medical use of cannabis..
    all hell will break loose… and especially if we loose this all together
    for stupid iniatives that will ruin it for those whom benifit from the use
    of cannabis medically…
     

     
    I am on a diffrent boat then most.. but i do not support legalization , but
    i do support the medical usse of cannabis.. and i do have my reasons.. and
    life experience behind me .. so.. what ever..
     
    if you have not walked in our shoes of growing, to obtain,, what ever.. you
    have no ideal what we all have gone through in this issue… and most of us
    have paid the price and now more so then ever.. just because some people
    want to make tons of monies off of this plant that was started mainly for
    medical purposes…
     

     
    If all can enjoy.. that is great.. but do not take it away from those whom
    want to grow their own or grow in an associated garden with others whom have
    medical needs.. just for personal gain of wealth.. if your going to change
    it.. change it where everyone can grow their own if they choose, and sell it
    to their members ,, either in a store front setting , or a mom and pop home
    business.. but i just can not see this reality come about until the Federal
    and State come together to find a solution to this situation.. i am sick of
    those whom just want it legalized so that they can make monies off of the
    citizens.. medical or not… and take it away from us.. whom benifit from it
    medically.. for our issues… just so that you can make thousands of
    dollars…
     

     
    Comerialized business due to legalization of cannbis.. i can see the prices
    rising and those whom can not afford go without.. due to the high prices
    sold in the stores..
     
    what is wrong with the laws that we have now…, not good for legalization
    at all.. or for anyone to participate in without a recomendation from a good
    doctor… and medical marijuana id card from our county… its not the laws
    that are not working.. its both our state county boad of supervisors, law
    enfocement, sheriffs department as well as those whom want to own cannabis
    business to sell … is this what this is about.. Selling Cannabis…. go
    for legalization for all to use..
     
    maybe its the right direction to find peace within our government.. but i do
    not see this happening anytime soon..
     

     
    REShedule it…. thats what i say…yes i agree.. but you can not have
    medical marijuana if the CSA continues … get rid of them.. and you have
    cannabis legal.. medical or non medical.. but do not take away what we are
    allow to do.. grow our own….
     

     
    I support you.. but just not prices put out there .. lets just say.. until
    the changes come about.. all i can do right now is go by the laws we already
    have into effect..and leave the rest up to those whom really understand this
    issue..
     

     
    I am just a medical marijuana patient.. whom benifits from the use of
    cannabis, as well as growing the cannabis plant.. and enjoying that i am
    able to so something with my life.. instead of just existing due to my
    medical issues.. and if the laws change for the better.. and not take my
    rights away concerning this issue.. then Power to the people… i am all
    in.. if not.. and the laws are taken away.. then i will be forced to go back
    to the dark pit i was once in.. and that is not an option for me… to even
    think about…
     

     
    so.. do the right thing to benifit all of us in this issue .. of
    Cannabis….
     
     
     
    — On Fri, 12/23/11, s..s@a2c2.us <s..s@a2c2.us> wrote:
     
     
    Cc: "Lavonne Victor" <s..s@a2c2.us>
     
    I've been studying this issue for over 20 years now and I think the answer
    lies in cutting the beasts head off it's shoulders at the federal level.
    CSA IS the Achilles Heal in ending Cannabis Prohibition. The time for
    "medical marijuana" is over and the time for for legalization is upon us,
    now that over 50% of the American People support it. What is really going
    on now is a desperate attempt by Obama to monopolize production and
    distribution to controlled corporations. This cannot stand.
     
    The MERP Strategy for Marijuana Re-Legalization in a Nutshell

     
    Yours in Peace and Freedom,
     
    Bruce W. Cain
     
     
    _____
     
     
    Cc: "Lavonne Victor" <s..s@a2c2.us>
    Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 3:59:12 AM
     
     
    I am a patient and not an attorney.. but do know the laws of the use of
    cannabis.. you have to be educated when your utalizing cannabis, growing
    cannabis.. or even doing an association of patients.. but still no matter
    what it is still illegal to sell cannabis… so what ever …
     

     
    I beleve we have a right to utalize cannabis.. for me i support medical use
    of cannabis while others support legalization of cannabis for all.. so..
    what .. everyone has a diffrence of insite on this issue of which road you
    have walked on in your life time…
     

     
    I used to work and make tons of monies and able to not just support myself
    but others as well. for i was a very independent woman.. and female
    shoveinistic.. and stand up for myself.. without fear on any issues comming
    at me.. but just because i have been forced to be out of work due to my
    illness what diffrence dose it make to label myself? To you or to anyone..
    to say the least..
     

     
    I would like to know how many people on this list is involved in the
    legalities behind this issue.. How many of you whom run a big organization
    like ASA and Norml have faced the court system behind this issue.. Most of
    you whom have provided the initiatives on this issue, whom have put it into
    law .. have you ever thought it would go comeralized for profit?… was this
    intended from the very start?.. I wonder what the truth really is behind
    this issue.. and how many people are teaching others lies on this issue of
    sales? So many people 's lives have been torn apart and children torn from
    the security of their home and taken away from our younger families that
    thought that they were upholding the laws behind this issue and thought it
    was legal to sell cannabis by the ounce, or ect.. to those whom they have
    met or known.. if sales were really legal why is the state and federal
    getting involved with the store front issues.. now i have read the laws and
    have researched the laws inside and out for over 10 years on this issue of
    sales.. and i am tired of those whom are making a killing from those whom
    are looking for treatment for their ailments.. but like any business..
    Cannabis is Gold to many.. and the gold rush is here.. and geesh everyone
    wants a part of the pile of gold… even the cops..
     

     
    My life has been turned upside down due to the stress of the courts behind
    this issue.. not once but twice.. from mostly 6 years of the 11 years i have
    been involved.. in the activism part of things, and now i am retired from it
    due to circumstance that surround me that is set as priority..
     

     
    most on this list.. i don't know.. some i do know.. or what ever.. but the
    issue on hand is finding a good solution to solve this problem that we have
    behind this issue of cananbis… medically or not…
     

     
    but in the mean time.. people whom are like me whom grow.. whom grow with
    others , in an association of patients are not making any kind of monies
    what so ever.. in fact i have spent over and above what others have invested
    in thier share of their garden.. we provided the expense of the mortgage on
    our property,, and all we ask is that you help with the expence in order to
    grown in unity.. but now.. no one whats to invest and partake in their own
    garden.. for they are used to going to a store and picking out their strains
    that they want.. pay for it and leave.. for that is what was educated to
    them that this is the only way to obtain.. some even hold classes to teach
    you how to grow indoor, how to open up your own store.. and much more.. so..
    what is this telling us all whom are patients?? that the only way to achieve
    cannabis is to go to a store front and pay 25.00 for a gram? or better yet
    you can get two grams for 35.00 .. wow.. what a deal.. really.. what do
    these people behifit from two grams that they buy.. how dose it help these
    people?
     
    I could not afford that price on the limited income i have been given due to
    my disability.. so how do you justify this issue… i read the laws.. and it
    states out of pocket expence.. but also states people joining together to
    obtain their cananbis..we have been debating this issue for over 10 years
    now.. with certain people.. And our Attorney whom has been really blunt with
    us.. about the laws.. and sales are not included.. so.. what ever…
     

     
    I hear allot of complaints against store fronts from pateints that i have
    talked to .. and the complaints are manily about the prices and how much
    they charge.. now i am an orgaic outdoor grower.. and have ben for some time
    for myself.. and its diffrent looking then indoor, and it taste diffrently..
    and you know what.. i perfer it clean and organic.. but most think outdoor
    is not as good as indoor pot.. because its not tight,, oh well. i rather
    have a bud that gives me what i need,, and able to utalize it as much as i
    need and as much as i need.. and store fronts can not supply me with what i
    need.. especially at their prices.. so how are you going to benifit those
    whom utalize cannabis for medical purposes only.. for i am one of them..
    medical only.. for i am not utalizing cannabis just to get that high like
    most are looking for .. i am looking for comfort and relief from my
    challenges that i face with my illness.. and that is all..
     

     
    I don't want the high.. i am not comfortable being high.. and having the
    room swam around me.. and feelig like i am ready to turn into liquid.. for
    my whole body feels like i am jellow.. for i can not move.. and i ate too
    many cookies.. eatables.. wow.. are strong .. for me.. so i have to make it
    myself for only i know what works for me.. and how much i utalize and what
    it takes to keep me even .. but there are many whom act like they know.. how
    something would affect that person.. when they know nothing about that
    person.. to tell them that its ok to eat that whole cookie.. when you have
    no ideal how that is going to affect them.. its not funny if your new to the
    whole ideal of utalizing cannabis for the first time.. and not knowing what
    to expect.. only we know how much we can handle or not handle.. and that
    happens with pharmacuticle drugs as well.. for the doctor dose not know
    anything unless you tell them how the drugs are affecting you..
     

     
    But there are many concern issues behind this issue of cannabis.. and
    everyone has the right outside of this community to have concerns.. and
    especially when they have no knowlege of the use of cannabis unless they
    themselves have used it
    for really.. non medical use is totally diffrent from someone that utalizes
    it for medical reasons.. and allot of it .. that is needed in order to keep
    our illenss controled.. and not druged up from pharmacuticle drugs.. but
    then again do anyone really care .. or are they more concern about opening
    up a store and selling it then they are at meeting our needs.. concerning
    this issue…
     
    I think not.. many people whom are dying of an illeness can not afford the
    high prices of store fronts.. and do not meet their needs.. A sick and
    terminal ill citizens whom utalizes cannabis needs more than 4 ounces a
    month to utalize.. and that means able to cook with it as well.. and that
    within itself takes allot.. well.. who helps these citizens whom are on
    limited income.. would you sell it for 100.00 an ounce no matter what strain
    it is our even for 25.00 an ounce .. no i don't think so.. so then why even
    ask the growers to provide for the store front owners ,, only pay indoor
    growers higher rages than they do outdoor growers? Yes i heard how much that
    they charge.. and its even tempting to say the least to other growers.. but
    some growers know that its illegal for them to do .. is to sell.. but we are
    allowed by law to gether together in unity and share in the out of pocket
    expence as well as growing to obtain safe access to our cannbis for our

     

    lavonne victor <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 29 09:23AM -0800  

    — On Wed, 12/28/11, lavonne victor <s..s@a2c2.us> wrote:
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Hi Joe..
    I understand your case was a state case,, was it not?
     
    There are many issue out there,, and its really a crazy time.. since we have been around this, everyone has always stated that the feds are the ten tons elephant in the room, anybody that has gotten into this has always known that there are absoutly no legal way of federally using this plant.. the state laws states exactly one thing… when you try to circumvent what that law states, that is when your in state trouble….
     
    This movement is torn in half.. those whom utalize for medical and those for legalization..
    Until the state laws change then there is nothing we can do but abide by them.. and we will continue having this issue until it is changed.. and there are people in high places that are trying to do just that..
     
    Joe.. if you need to talk.. you know my email..and we still have your ladder.. lol….
    its hard on any person whom has been found guilty in the court of law.. and it really changes your view on your surroundings..
     
    and for those of you.. this is nothing personal.. and i have my views and i am entitle to it just like anyone on this list.. and Joe.. so sorry that your trials and tribulations and opions on the way you have been treated.. but i am not mother teressa.. and i am not a saint to say the lest.. and if the federal whom knows about us.. tell us to close our house.. and tell us to stop growing for ourselves and 3 others..i would..
     
    For i will allow those whom are in the high seat of the cannabis movement to fight this fight.. and hope for the more positive note on this issue.. Repeal……
     
    peace to you Joe and your family and to those whom follow you..
    Lavonne.
     
    .
     
    .
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    — On Mon, 12/26/11, Joe Grumbine <s..s@a2c2.us> wrote:
     
     
     
     
    to those that have the opinion that their way is ok and others are not because of the current status of state law I only have these two words to say  "Federal Law" it's kind of funny that when the feds come down on anyone, we all of a sudden get "religion" and understand why prohibition is so wrong. 
    Lavonne, I only hope the feds don't get wind of your "association of patients" growing a plant considered illegal by your federal government. 
     
     
    they won't understand any more than the judge in my court……..
     
     
    peace out
     
     
     
    On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:30 AM, lavonne victor <s..s@a2c2.us> wrote:
     
     
     
     
     
     
    We shall see.. i have been hearing this ever since the store fronts have been in place… 20 years is a very long time.. that i do know and appriciate.. but time will tell what happens next…Prop 19 did not pass.. now there is more initatives on the board.. still trying to put away with the medical marijuana laws to fit the needs of comeralized business… …. instead of the patients needs to medical use.. as i said.. we shall see what happens next.. this has been going on for years on end to get marijuana legalized … the only thing i can see is Rescheduling cannabis for medical purposes only.. not for everyone to utalizes… maybe we should make all drugs available and make them all legalized?… this has been going on for centruries.. since i can remember..
     
    anyway.. good luck.. but if it interfeers with our medical use of cannabis.. all hell will break loose… and especially if we loose this all together for stupid iniatives that will ruin it for those whom benifit from the use of cannabis medically…
     
    I am on a diffrent boat then most.. but i do not support legalization , but i do support the medical usse of cannabis.. and i do have my reasons.. and life experience behind me .. so.. what ever..
    if you have not walked in our shoes of growing, to obtain,, what ever.. you have no ideal what we all have gone through in this issue… and most of us have paid the price and now more so then ever.. just because some people want to make tons of monies off of this plant that was started mainly for medical purposes…
     
    If all can enjoy.. that is great.. but do not take it away from those whom want to grow their own or grow in an associated garden with others whom have medical needs.. just for personal gain of wealth.. if your going to change it.. change it where everyone can grow their own if they choose, and sell it to their members ,, either in a store front setting , or a mom and pop home business.. but i just can not see this reality come about until the Federal and State come together to find a solution to this situation.. i am sick of those whom just want it legalized so that they can make monies off of the citizens.. medical or not… and take it away from us.. whom benifit from it medically.. for our issues… just so that you can make thousands of dollars…
     
    Comerialized business due to legalization of cannbis.. i can see the prices rising and those whom can not afford go without.. due to the high prices sold in the stores..
    what is wrong with the laws that we have now…, not good for legalization at all.. or for anyone to participate in without a recomendation from a good doctor… and medical marijuana id card from our county… its not the laws that are not working.. its both our state county boad of supervisors, law enfocement, sheriffs department as well as those whom want to own cannabis business to sell … is this what this is about.. Selling Cannabis…. go for legalization for all to use..
    maybe its the right direction to find peace within our government.. but i do not see this happening anytime soon..
     
    REShedule it…. thats what i say…yes i agree.. but you can not have medical marijuana if the CSA continues … get rid of them.. and you have cannabis legal.. medical or non medical.. but do not take away what we are allow to do.. grow our own….
     
    I support you.. but just not prices put out there .. lets just say.. until the changes come about.. all i can do right now is go by the laws we already have into effect..and leave the rest up to those whom really understand this issue..
     
    I am just a medical marijuana patient.. whom benifits from the use of cannabis, as well as growing the cannabis plant.. and enjoying that i am able to so something with my life.. instead of just existing due to my medical issues.. and if the laws change for the better.. and not take my rights away concerning this issue.. then Power to the people… i am all in.. if not.. and the laws are taken away.. then i will be forced to go back to the dark pit i was once in.. and that is not an option for me… to even think about…
     
    so.. do the right thing to benifit all of us in this issue .. of Cannabis….
     
     
    — On Fri, 12/23/11, s..s@a2c2.us <s..s@a2c2.us> wrote:
     
     
    Cc: "Lavonne Victor" <s..s@a2c2.us>
     
     
     
     
    I've been studying this issue for over 20 years now and I think the answer lies in cutting the beasts head off it's shoulders at the federal level.  CSA IS the Achilles Heal in ending Cannabis Prohibition.  The time for "medical marijuana" is over and the time for for legalization is upon us, now that over 50% of the American People support it.  What is really going on now is a desperate attempt by Obama to monopolize production and distribution to controlled corporations.  This cannot stand.
     
    The MERP Strategy for Marijuana Re-Legalization in a Nutshell

     
    Yours in Peace and Freedom,
     
    Bruce W. Cain
     
     
     
    Cc: "Lavonne Victor" <s..s@a2c2.us>
    Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 3:59:12 AM
     
     
     
     
     
     
    I am a patient and not an attorney.. but do know the laws of the use of cannabis.. you have to be educated when your utalizing cannabis, growing cannabis.. or even doing an association of patients.. but still no matter what it is still illegal to sell cannabis… so what ever …
     
    I beleve we have a right to utalize cannabis.. for me i support medical use of cannabis while others support legalization of cannabis for all.. so.. what .. everyone has a diffrence of insite on this issue of which road you have walked on in your life time…
     
    I used to work and make tons of monies and able to not just support myself but others as well. for i was a very independent woman.. and female shoveinistic.. and stand up for myself.. without fear on any issues comming at me.. but just because i have been forced to be out of work due to my illness what diffrence dose it make to label myself? To you or to anyone.. to say the least..
     
    I would like to know how many people on this list is involved in the legalities behind this issue.. How many of you whom run a big organization like ASA and Norml have faced the court system behind this issue.. Most of you whom have provided the initiatives on this issue, whom have put it into law .. have you ever thought it would go comeralized for profit?… was this intended from the very start?.. I wonder what the truth really is behind this issue.. and how many people are teaching others lies on this issue of sales?  So many people 's lives have been torn apart and children torn from the security of their home and taken away from our younger families that thought that they were upholding the laws behind this issue and thought it was legal to sell cannabis by the ounce, or ect.. to those whom they have met or known.. if sales were really legal why is the state and federal getting involved with the store front issues.. now i have read the laws and
    have researched the laws inside and out for over 10 years on this issue of sales.. and i am tired of those whom are making a killing from those whom are looking for treatment for their ailments.. but like any business.. Cannabis is Gold to many.. and the gold rush is here.. and geesh everyone wants a part of the pile of gold… even the cops..
     
    My life has been turned upside down due to the stress of the courts behind this issue.. not once but twice.. from mostly 6 years of the 11 years i have been involved.. in the activism part of things, and now i am retired from it due to circumstance that surround me that is set as priority..
     
    most on this list.. i don't know.. some i do know.. or what ever.. but the issue on hand is finding a good solution to solve this problem that we have behind this issue of cananbis… medically or not…
     
    but in the mean time.. people whom are like me whom grow.. whom grow with others , in an association of patients are not making any kind of monies what so ever.. in fact i have spent over and above what others have invested in thier share of their garden.. we provided the expense of the mortgage on our property,, and all we ask is that you help with the expence in order to grown in unity.. but now.. no one whats to invest and partake in their own garden.. for they are used to going to a store and picking out their strains that they want.. pay for it and leave.. for that is what was educated to them that this is the only way to obtain.. some even hold classes to teach you how to grow indoor, how to open up your own store.. and much more.. so.. what is this telling us all whom are patients?? that the only way to achieve cannabis is to go to a store front and pay 25.00 for a gram? or better yet you can get two grams for 35.00 .. wow.. what a deal.. really..
    what do these people behifit from two grams that they buy.. how dose it help these people?
    I could not afford that price on the limited income i have been given due to my disability.. so how do you justify this issue… i read the laws.. and it states out of pocket expence.. but also states people joining together to obtain their cananbis..we have been debating this issue for over 10 years now.. with certain people.. And our Attorney whom has been really blunt with us.. about the laws.. and sales are not included.. so.. what ever…
     
    I hear allot of complaints against store fronts from pateints that i have talked to .. and the complaints are manily about the prices and how much they charge.. now i am an orgaic outdoor grower.. and have ben for some time for myself.. and its diffrent looking then indoor, and it taste diffrently.. and you know what.. i perfer it clean and organic.. but most think outdoor is not as good as indoor pot.. because its not tight,, oh well. i rather have a bud that gives me what i need,, and able to utalize it as much as i need and as much as i need.. and store fronts can not supply me with what i need.. especially at their prices.. so how are you going to benifit those whom utalize cannabis for medical purposes only.. for i am one of them.. medical only.. for i am not utalizing cannabis just to get that high like most are looking for .. i am looking for comfort and relief from my challenges that i face with my illness.. and that is all..
     
    I don't want the high.. i am not comfortable being high.. and having the room swam around me.. and feelig like i am ready to turn into liquid.. for my whole body feels like i am jellow.. for i can not move.. and i ate too many cookies.. eatables.. wow.. are strong .. for me.. so i have to make it myself for only i know what works for me.. and how much i utalize and what it takes to keep me even .. but there are many whom act like they know.. how something would affect that person.. when they know nothing about that person.. to tell them that its ok to eat that whole cookie.. when you have no ideal how that is going to affect them.. its not funny if your new to the whole ideal of utalizing cannabis for the first time.. and not knowing what to expect.. only we know how much we can handle or not handle.. and that happens with pharmacuticle drugs as well.. for the doctor dose not know anything unless you tell them how the drugs are affecting you..
     
    But there are many concern issues behind this issue of cannabis.. and everyone has the right outside of this community to have concerns.. and especially when they have no knowlege of the use of cannabis unless they themselves have used it  
    for really.. non medical use is totally diffrent from someone that utalizes it for medical reasons.. and allot of it .. that is needed in order to keep our illenss controled.. and not druged up from pharmacuticle drugs.. but then again do anyone really care .. or are they more concern about opening up a store and selling it then they are at meeting our needs.. concerning this issue…
    I think not.. many people whom are dying of an illeness can not afford the high prices of store fronts.. and do not meet their needs.. A sick and terminal ill citizens whom utalizes cannabis needs more than 4 ounces a month to utalize.. and that means able to cook with it as well.. and that within itself takes allot.. well.. who helps these citizens whom are on limited income.. would you sell it for 100.00 an ounce no matter what strain it is our even for 25.00 an ounce .. no i don't think so.. so then why even ask the growers to provide for the store front owners ,, only pay indoor growers higher rages than they do outdoor growers? Yes i heard how much that they charge.. and its even tempting to say the least to other growers.. but some growers know that its illegal for them to do .. is to sell.. but we are allowed by law

     

    "andrew garret" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 29 08:16AM -0800  

    With reference to the North Carolina Medical Cannabis website:
     
    http://antiquecannabisbook.com/chap04/NCarolina/NCMainPage.htm
     
    I think we now have most of the mis-spell words corrected and it should
    now be readable. — If anyone want’s copies of the complete Dr. Boone
    collection, [consisting of over 200 pre-Oct 1937 prescriptions for Medical
    Cannabis] again feel free to ask, they can be emailed out to you.
     
     
    OKLAHOMA SITE — NEED HELP
    The museum is still in need of proofreaders — [we NEED YOUR HELP A LOT]
    The State of Oklahoma Web-Pages will contain the Dr. Huddson collection of
    pre-1937 Cannabis prescriptions [era 1928-1333] ALL from the state of
    State of Oklahoma. Also, (unlike N.C.), this State was BIG on Reefer
    Madness (Murder, rape, robberies etc.), – you name it, this state had it
    all so there are numerous pages dealing with harry Anslingers Gore File
    cases.
     
    The web code is now ready, but needs to be proof read for bad spell –
    grammar etc.
     
    If you have the power to do proof reading, please do volunteer.
     
     
     
    Antique Andy
    Museum Curator
    s..s@a2c2.us
    www.AntiqueCannabisBook.com
    www.ReeferMadnessMuseum.org
     
     
     
    —————————————–
    Sent via Catholic Online Webmail!
    Use Catholic Online Webmail to proclaim your faith to the world.
    http://webmail.catholic.org/

     

    "Axis of Love SF, Shona Gochenaur" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 28 10:44PM -0800  

    REpeal probhition should be part of every ones message
    .Decriminalization. but much like what mickey bringing up or the point
    i think he trying to make? Is while we can create our prefered words
    . Most of us out here in the real world? need to speak in a common
    mother tongue so we can comincate to neighbors .parents at our kids
    schools ect.. We dont realy want anyone throwing legalization as an
    oppant of medical cannabis. We want everyone out of jail. I personaly
    prefer and think a greater humantiarn good is served by
    decriminalzation .period .across the board. But i wouldnt state to
    media that i was against legalization. I often have people come up
    and state i voted for prop 215 so people that are disabled had access
    to mj not thoose people going into clubs. I want everyone to have
    access but the ironic thing is becuase its become a commerical item?
    Its actualy realy hard for most disabled advocates to even afford
    anything in these wellness clubs? Wellness for who? Those that can
    afford?
     
     

    Shona Gochenaur
    Executive Director
    Axis of Love SF
    http://www.facebook.com/axisoflove
    http://www.twitter.com/axisoflove

     

December 29, 2011 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 8 Messages in 4 Topics

 

    Joe Grumbine <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 09:00AM -0800  

    to those that have the opinion that their way is ok and others are not
    because of the current status of state law I only have these two words to
    say "Federal Law" it's kind of funny that when the feds come down on
    anyone, we all of a sudden get "religion" and understand why prohibition is
    so wrong.
    Lavonne, I only hope the feds don't get wind of your "association of
    patients" growing a plant considered illegal by your federal government.
     
    they won't understand any more than the judge in my court……..
     
    peace out
     
     
     

    Blessings
    Joe

     

    lavonne victor <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 12:30AM -0800  

    about who we are..or who i am..
    i have spoken many times about my opions and fears on this issue..
    and i must say.. that i am a patient…
     
    My husband and I .. in 2000 became patients of cannabis.. and we researched the laws at that time.. and stupidly called and asked the police how much we were able to grow .. needless to say.. we had no ideal about any groups or cannabis organizations out there. and we were on our own..
    and there are many out there even now whom are in the same boat as we once were.. but thanks to one group.. MAPP.. we met people in the movement whom were very supportive in a small amount of people..as well as Barbra Mckenzi from Shelter from the Storm out of San Diego,  for we faced the courts the same time we first grew.. for they came in and took all of our harvest plants away.. and arrested my husband.. and only one person with a few others shown up in support at that time…
    needless to say.. the story continues.. for after we have gotten through the ordeal and the stress along with the finacial issues behind this issue.. we were pissed.. for we have proven that we were trying to uphold the laws that were put forth on this issue.. and we were arrested…why..
    later after that we open up our 1/2 ace land and had others join us in our associated garden.. and we have had a great few years after 2003.. but until 2008.. the raid came again.. and our members whom had the card were not arrested but my husband was.. and due to his recomendation and card not being in our book he had to face the courts again.. and again we went thorugh the court system..and we were told by the Judge that we were trying to do our best to uphold the laws of the state concerning this issue.. and you know what.. not one organization , big organization like ASA came and supported us.. one person came from the human Solution whom was a member of our association and MAPP, Lanny Swerdlow whom supported us.. but since then we became a thorn in the cannabis movement due to our personal opions on certain initiatives that came out..
     
    I am a patient whom is trying to deal with keeping up with the issues concerning cannabis and the laws behind it.. I am not in the working community and have not been for over 11 years since my illness came about.. but.. i do benifit from the cannabis..
     
    Our association of pateints are those whom choose to be apart of us.. whom want to join us in growing in unity to obtain safe access to their cannabis.. for medical purposes for sure.. not just anyone off the street can just join in.. no can just anyone off the street can just obtain it.. when they first become a part of.. and had to wait for the harvest in order to receive.. and everyone participated within the group as well as out of pocket expense.. and received their equal share .. but now we are doing it diffrently but the same..
     
    We have gone through allot over the 11 years that we have been apart of this cannabis community.. and I had the pleasure of meeting so many people in this movement..
    But.. we all have diffrence of opions on this issue.. and to be kicked to the side of the street just because you disagree with some issues. are wrong..
     
    I am a woman in my middle 50"s and mostly home due to circumstance.. and i have spent 10 years in being an activist but now i am mostly staying home.. its hard for me to spend time at expo's , and travel .. its hard for me to go to parties, meeting, ect.. to me this issue of cannbis is for my health only.. not to just party and have a great time.. i am not in the fast lane of society but in the very slow lane of the disabled …
    Cannabis has been a big part of my life.. and my concern is that i do not want it to be taken away from me.. i can not afford to spend monies at the store.. the cost is too high for my income and most of my income takes care of putting a roof over my head and food in my families mouth.. so we grow our own.. and that is the way it is.. for us.. but there are many whom are unable to do what we are doing.. or have that property to keep it from the eye of the public, nor have the monies to keep it secured.. and it takes monies.. in order to do so.. but still.. cannabis is there for us and many.. and we are allow to grow our own, transport our own, and be reinbursed out of pocket expence… so.. what is this fuss about.. is it about getting more dispensaries up and running legally and also doing away with the patients grow for themselves.. if this is so. then i will not support the initiatives that come about unless we also are protected.. and still allow to
    continue to grow our own.. and if the store fronts are able to sell their products , like all small business owned by a home owner should also be able to sell their products as well.. why is it only good for big corporations only, and do away with the mom and pop …
    there are many farm owners whom grow fruit and vegitables and grapes that do sell , and many are small groups whom sell what they grow.. on a small scale.. why should we be any diffrent, if your going to go to a new way of doing things.. of course i am concern.. especially if this is going to take away from me and me obtaining my cannabis and not be able to grow my own,, or allow others in a small group of 20 to grow with us.. in unity.to fit our medical needs.. then this will be a problem.. and my vote do count .. .
     
    I am not going to waste my life around this issue.. for i really do not know how much life i have in me.. and in reality no one really dose know.. when their time is up .. but sick people , even by our government are being treated like we are just wasted space amonst the living.. as they continue to take our programs away from us.. well.. if store fronts only are allowed, and only big farmers only are allowed to provide these store fronts with cannabis product then you are taking our freedom away from us and forcing us to depend upon the store to obtain our cannabis and pay taxes on it also.. but to put a tax on a patient/ or citizen whom grows for themselves or a few others is wrong..
     
    i many not understand this initiative.. but i read it .. and i read it to try to understand what it really is about.. but my mind is simple now.. due to my illness.. and its hard for me sometimes to understand.. i am not afraid what those on this list may think of me.. on what i share.. but  i share honestly of my insite is of my surroundings.. and i am not active in the activism anymore, nor do i go to meetings anymore.. but i stay incontact by reading what is out there on many list. and its confusing not just to me but many others..
     
    I am a voter still .. and i stay up on this issue as much as my understanding would allow me to.. and my husband tries to explain to me over and over again.. but then its frustrating to him.. not that i blame him for my memory is out the window.. but what do you expect from someone that is working on dead braincells..lol.. anyway..
     
    i have to share.. i have to let you know from a patients view of this issue.. and how important it is for me to continue utalizing cannbis.. for medical purposes.. but over the years things have changed.. in my view.. things have changed more so than most would have it outside of the community of cannbis.. lets regulate, lets control, lets profittize off of the cannabis.. that is how i am seeing it.. now everyone has a way of getting a recomendation easily than before when i got one.. it was hard.. to get one.. but now days everyone is able to receive.. lolol
    Cannabis is now out there more so than ever.. in movies, in tv shows, in the news, now more so than ever.. cannabis has a voice.. and now we are going forward on trying to legalize cannbis.. for everyone to utalize.
     
    Most that i have read on this list .. some say that using the medical term behind cannabis is a mokery.. a smoke screen .. and most are not really sick.. but use it in order to obtain cannabis.. which is true. so.. there is a solution out there.. and the big people in the know.. is going toward that new path in the cannabis world.. but all i ask is that you do not take my freedome away from me.. to grow my own.. to help others obtain that also can not afford the high prices due to their income.. .. i utalize allot of cannbis for my illness and have been since i have been growing.. and it benifits me and keeps my illness somewhat under control and i do not have to take all those pharmacuticle drugs that kept me in the dark pit and i have lost years of reality behind that.. and personally i do not want to walk that road again.. for no one…
     
    I do not have monies to change the world, so to speak.. and no that many friends, due to me being homebound.. and i do have physical issus as well as mental issues.. and some people think i am really crazy at some times.. but what ever.. i am still a member of the cannabis movement, even if i am not part of it in form.. but i am in voice.. and i hope that more patients outside of the active part of the cannabis movement will come forth and voice their opions on this issue..
     
    i agree that providers for thousands of people should not go through the court system.. and many have gone through the front lines and paid a big price in doing so.. but how many more must be going through this and having their families torn apart due to this issue.. one case .. Joe Grumbine and Joe have been found guilty.. and i must agree with them on the part of how they were treated in the court room .. and it was terrible to say the least.. I met Joe and Liz and even spent time with them.. but still this is tearing his family apart behind this issue.. as well as others whom also are facing the courts due to them being providers.. we the members of the cannabis movement should have a choice.. to deceide if we want to go to a store front to obtain, for most they feel safer in doing so.. instead of having a delivery service or being apart of a group grow, due to circumstance.. to say the least..
     
    I am sorry that i am long winded on this .. i never intended to be.. but this is an important issue.. how can i vote to change what is.. if i do not completly understand it.. and i can not just vote yes to anything unless i understand how it is going to affect me and others in my shoes.. some are worse off then me.. more so. than i can imagine..
     
    My heart is with those whom are now spending time in jail , or having thier children being ripped from their arms and taken away to only what they understand.. , but lets not forget the ones that have gone and killed someone or a couple whom had cannabis.. lets not forget those take advantage.. crime is everywhere,,no matter what it may be.. a jewlery store, a bank, a fast food resturant.. ect.. that is the fact.. its not just the cannabis..
     
    For me.. its a medical issue.. that is important to me.. to others is non medical.. but i do know that more states are comming on board with the medical use of cannabis..
     
    I understand that the younger generation and even some of the older generation wants to have fun.. but really.. booze is legal, tobacco is legal, and they kill many citizens .. but cannabis is allot healthier.. so to say the least .. i am totally torn on this issue of legalization…
    i rather be able to grow it like i do my herbs and vegitables that i get from the store.. and not pay taxes.. just because i choose to grow ..or have to pay a high price just to be able to get permission to grow and have a home business.. .. a regular business never had to pay high just to be in business.. but with cannabis.. its a diffrent story.. now i feel you want to take my rights away from me.. and my freedom to grow my own…
     
    anyway.. that is my insite.. right, wrong, or indiffent.. this is my voice on this issue..
    anyway.. you all have a great New Year to come..
     
    ..
     
    La Vonne..
     
     
     
     
     
    s
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Thank you to those who have intro'ed  yourselves.
     
    If we were @ a convention meeting where we didn't know each other, say, we were all in a circle in a room, don't the rest of you feel like you'd offer your name & org connection? Or would you wear a mask & disguise your voice? Or offer your name but not share what org you were representing? Shouldn't we make the distinction between someone speaking for an org or for themselves? If I'm aware you are speaking for an org, I'm gonna listen differently which is not to say I don't hear an individual speaking for herself. If I see your .org suffix, shall I assume you are speaking for your group? If you don't have an .org suffix, is it safe to assume you are just speaking for yourself?
     
    This IS an open place and cause I wanna know who you are, where you are coming from & how you relate to this movement, so I can put my own thinking into YOUR words, doesn't make me feel like I'm prying or asking too much of you. Assume the cops know about each & every one of us anyway! What is there to hide?
     
    This is far from labeling, it is sharing with people with whom we have chosen to share concepts.
     
    And, we should not assume, except perhaps for a couple names, that everyone here is known to others.
     
    I offer these thoughts with love & peace & am motivated by a desire to keep moving this conversation forward.
     
    I stand for the legalization of marijuana and the accessibility of MM. I stand for community control, which is to say, CORPORATE NOT. I've almost fifty adult years of activism (yeah, I'm old!) including arrests & prison time as a GI during Vietnam and a pot felony conviction in this decade. I am a co-founder of Veteran's Speakers Alliance of the SF Bay Area, a chef & visual artist.
     
    We all have many, many common interests here and there is an incredible variety of strategies and tactics suggested in these conversations providing many directions for continued forward momentum. We don't have to agree on all of them but we must agree to be open and honest in our conversations.
     
    Thanks for listening. Have a wonderful warm & illuminating weekend.
     
    Peace,
     
     
    Hal Muskat
    Veterans For Peace
    "Sir, No Sir!"
     
    "I think because I can't code. I'm an artist because I can't think enough."
     
     
     
     
     
    On 12/23/11 8:56 AM, Letitia Pepper wrote:
     
     
     
     
          In response to Hal Muskat's relevant query about the background of people sending info in to "save cannabis" :
         I am an attorney, an activist and a patient. 
         I've been an attorney since 1982 when I passed the California bar. 
         I've been an activist since 1970 when I went to my first municipal land use-related meeting as a teenager with my mother and watched elected officials blatantly LIE to the audience in order to carry out their plan of developing, into a mall, one of the very rare California coastal wetlands near Carlsbad, California. 
          I've been a patient since 1993, when I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. 
          I've been a patient who uses cannabis as medicine since 2007, when I learned how cannabis helps people with so many different diseases and WHY it does.
          I've been a cannabis activist and anti-lying-to-patients activist since 2010, when, as an activist, I intended to work on Prop. 19 to "legalize marijuana!" and, having then actually READ the damned thing, realized it was all a trick to take away patients' good, existing rights under Prop. 215.
          And, while I was originally going to support and work to pass Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act 2012, after re-reading that initiative and thinking about it, I realized that I'd missed something very significant that it does almost as an after thought to "repealing prohibition": 

     

    "s..s@a2c2.us" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 08:24AM -0800  

    DMV,
     
    I stopped responding because you are a lost cause and an endless argument based in loose interpretation and semantic wordplay. That shit is tiring. For those of us who live here in earth, and who do not see everything fun and enjoyable as a medical procedure, we have real work to do. When you come back to reality maybe we can finish the conversation. No sense in arguing with the inherently lost and in denial.
     
    Be well…..Mickey
     
    Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
     
    —–Original message—–
    Sent: Sun, Dec 25, 2011 18:41:57 GMT+00:00
     
     
    > OK, then…
     
    > I'm not a bawling rambling drunk… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects
    > of alcohol for my social anxiety disorder.
     
    I'm not a chain smoker… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects of tobacco
    > for my unobstructed airway syndrome.
    > I'm not hyper… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects of coffee for my
    > lethargy.
     
    “No valid conclusion as to the use of a thing can be drawn from its abuse.”
    Ancient Latin maxim, Stockdale v. Hansard, Lord Denman
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    > You're confusing "whether it has medical effects" with "whether people are
    > using it medically".
     
    You are focusing on the abuse of drugs as an excuse to keep our community
    divided.
     
    I am focusing on the potential proper use of drugs as a method of keeping
    our community united.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    > While you may not see a difference, the public does.
     
    "*They who have put out the people's eyes, reproach them for their blindness
    *" – John Milton
     
     
     
     
     
     

     

    Russ Belville <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 27 12:14PM -0800  

    You know what doesn't serve the movement well? Organizing to defeat Prop
    19. Or giving aid and comfort to those who do.
     
    Russ Belville
    NORML Outreach Coordinator
     
    Social Networks: @RadicalRuss and @NORMLNet
    Shipping: 4110 SE Hawthorne Blvd. #161 – Portland, OR 97214
    Phone:(phone#-removed) – Fax:(phone#-removed)
     
    *Keep fighting only for medical marijuana and marijuana will become medical
    only.*
    *Hemp’s not illegal because marijuana is a drug; marijuana’s illegal
    because hemp is an oil.*
    *The most amazing thing about cannabis is its ability to addle the brains
    of those who do not use it.*
     
     
     
    On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 8:20 PM, William G. Panzer

     

    Sjss <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 28 12:18PM -0800  

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Respect is due equally.
     
    Sent from my iPhone
     

     

    Sjss <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 28 12:19PM -0800  

    Not saying I am
    Organizing or oppose rather that respect of each otter is a must.
     
    Sent from my iPhone
     

     

    Mickey Martin <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 27 07:27AM -0800  

    Word games never kept anyone out of jail
    Posted by Mickey Martin on December 27th, 2011
    Triple Word Score?
    So the debate rages on after Steve Deangelo dropped the “I do not believe in legalization of cannabis for recreational use” card on the final episode of Weed Wars. The Deangelo brothers have been called turncoats, hypocrites, and busters by America’s cannabis community for their inability to manage the message and willingness to throw the entire legalization effort out the window, in what one can only assume is an action of self-preservation under the attack of Federal pressure, and the pressure of being the new American TV sweetheart.
    So then Steve tried to walk back his (and his brother’s) disastrous statements in major media outlets by stating this:
    The term “recreational cannabis” was imposed from outside our movement. It’s time to define our own lexicon of cannabis. -Steve Deangelo
    Is that what the fuck you were doing? Maybe that is what you should have said. Instead of saying “I do not support legalization of cannabis for recreational use,” you should have said “I do not like the term recreational.” And when you say “our” who exactly are you talking about? If I were to define my own “lexicon” of cannabis it would not be intertwined with the medical industry. The term “medicine” carries too much baggage in our society to deem all cannabis use as such. You may not like the term “recreational,” but that is the common terminology being used to define non-medical cannabis use.
    So let us look at this evil word “recreation” that has been imposed upon us.
    rec·re·a·tion/ˌrekrēˈāSHən/ (noun)- Activity done for enjoyment when one is not working.
    Well I can see where your issue is. Your employees use cannabis for enjoyment WHILE working, so I can see why you do not like this terminology. I mean, when Terryn ate the edible in episode 4 while working he did not seem to be seeking health and wellness; nor when he sat there looking confused and messing up the ladies order did he seem well. He seemed confused and disoriented, while performing customer service…..so I can see how you think “recreational” does not fit because of the “not working” thing. But that does not seem to be the rub with you guys.
    Here is what Andrew Deangelo said in a tweet that further confuses the situation:
    Recreation is an activity, not a commodity. Try to ingest recreation, just try it. It cannot be done. -Andrew Deangelo
    So this is where you want to hang your hat on this debacle? On the term recreation? So you are saying that because one cannot ingest “recreation” that your statement against legalizing cannabis for recreational use is somehow more valid or less offensive? I do not think so….under the same premise you cannot “ingest” health and wellness either. Just try it. It cannot be done. It is a state or condition…not a commodity. So what was the point you were trying to make again?
    Word games never kept anyone out of jail. While you fuckers are over there dancing around the semantics of what is recreation and what is wellness, and if because recreation makes you feel well is it also medicinal and can we sell weed to anyone who wants to recreate because they are actually performing health and wellness activities?…blah, blah, blah. STFU! You cannot decide that you want to play word games in order to dance around the fact that you threw the entire legalization effort under the bus. America did not hear that you think recreational is a bad “lexicon.” What they heard is that you “do not support legalization.” That is it. You  see…you actually have to change the lexicon BEFORE shitting all over it. You have to make the distinction between your displeasure with the term recreational and your preference for health and wellness; and on top of that, you have to get people to buy into that. NEWSFLASH: People are not buying into
    it.
    Instead, you decided to shit on the term that most of America uses to describe non-medical and non-therapeutic uses of cannabis. The only impression that the public took away from the final message of your big show was “those guys do not support legalization.” They are not sitting there pondering your definition or disapproval of the word “recreational.” They heard the message….”DO NOT SUPPORT LEGALIZATION.” And that is a very dangerous message right now, as we inch closer and closer to that goal.
    Look….I prefer the term “adult enjoyable use”; others prefer “social use” or “personal use.” The fact is that it is okay to like those terms and use them, but realize that this is not the term most people use. Me and my wannabe hipster friends call cars “whips”; but if I call my mom and say “Hey ma…I got a new whip,” she would politely respond with “what is a whip?” Why? Because this is not the common terminology most understood by wide portions of our society. We use the term “car” because everyone understands that. The same way everyone understands “recreational vs. medical” uses of cannabis…..well, everyone but you guys apparently.
    You can continue to play the game of bullshit semantics if you like, but the fact is that you made a fatal error in your messaging. And instead of manning up and saying that you misspoke or were mistaken, you continue to take us on some unwanted field trip to the health and wellness factory that is Harborside’s dreamland. Instead of saying, “That is not what I meant,” you continue to try and convince us all that we are wrong and that your new found definition for being “whacked out on edibles” at a softball game is the right way to go. It just does not hold water and you guys should scrap the bullshit and stand up for what is right….legalization of cannabis for whatever fucking type of use you want…recreation, social, enjoyable, adult, health and wellness…whatever. We are grown ass people. We should not have to dance around some stupid word games to make people understand that legalizing cannabis is the right thing to do. You guys
    failed to bring that message. Your message instead was “Fuck legalization.” And that is what is so sad.
     
    Mickey Martin
    T-Comp Consulting Director
    www.cannabiswarrior.com
    www.tcompconsulting.com
    s..s@a2c2.us
    (phone#-removed)
    http://twitter.com/CANNABISconsult
     
     
    ***The views expressed in this communication are not necessarily the views of T-Comp Consulting, Tainted Compassion, West Coast Cannabis, Cannabis Warrior any other group I am affiliated with.***

     

December 29, 2011 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 8 Messages in 4 Topics

 

    Joe Grumbine <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 09:00AM -0800  

    to those that have the opinion that their way is ok and others are not
    because of the current status of state law I only have these two words to
    say "Federal Law" it's kind of funny that when the feds come down on
    anyone, we all of a sudden get "religion" and understand why prohibition is
    so wrong.
    Lavonne, I only hope the feds don't get wind of your "association of
    patients" growing a plant considered illegal by your federal government.
     
    they won't understand any more than the judge in my court……..
     
    peace out
     
     
     

    Blessings
    Joe

     

    lavonne victor <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 12:30AM -0800  

    about who we are..or who i am..
    i have spoken many times about my opions and fears on this issue..
    and i must say.. that i am a patient…
     
    My husband and I .. in 2000 became patients of cannabis.. and we researched the laws at that time.. and stupidly called and asked the police how much we were able to grow .. needless to say.. we had no ideal about any groups or cannabis organizations out there. and we were on our own..
    and there are many out there even now whom are in the same boat as we once were.. but thanks to one group.. MAPP.. we met people in the movement whom were very supportive in a small amount of people..as well as Barbra Mckenzi from Shelter from the Storm out of San Diego,  for we faced the courts the same time we first grew.. for they came in and took all of our harvest plants away.. and arrested my husband.. and only one person with a few others shown up in support at that time…
    needless to say.. the story continues.. for after we have gotten through the ordeal and the stress along with the finacial issues behind this issue.. we were pissed.. for we have proven that we were trying to uphold the laws that were put forth on this issue.. and we were arrested…why..
    later after that we open up our 1/2 ace land and had others join us in our associated garden.. and we have had a great few years after 2003.. but until 2008.. the raid came again.. and our members whom had the card were not arrested but my husband was.. and due to his recomendation and card not being in our book he had to face the courts again.. and again we went thorugh the court system..and we were told by the Judge that we were trying to do our best to uphold the laws of the state concerning this issue.. and you know what.. not one organization , big organization like ASA came and supported us.. one person came from the human Solution whom was a member of our association and MAPP, Lanny Swerdlow whom supported us.. but since then we became a thorn in the cannabis movement due to our personal opions on certain initiatives that came out..
     
    I am a patient whom is trying to deal with keeping up with the issues concerning cannabis and the laws behind it.. I am not in the working community and have not been for over 11 years since my illness came about.. but.. i do benifit from the cannabis..
     
    Our association of pateints are those whom choose to be apart of us.. whom want to join us in growing in unity to obtain safe access to their cannabis.. for medical purposes for sure.. not just anyone off the street can just join in.. no can just anyone off the street can just obtain it.. when they first become a part of.. and had to wait for the harvest in order to receive.. and everyone participated within the group as well as out of pocket expense.. and received their equal share .. but now we are doing it diffrently but the same..
     
    We have gone through allot over the 11 years that we have been apart of this cannabis community.. and I had the pleasure of meeting so many people in this movement..
    But.. we all have diffrence of opions on this issue.. and to be kicked to the side of the street just because you disagree with some issues. are wrong..
     
    I am a woman in my middle 50"s and mostly home due to circumstance.. and i have spent 10 years in being an activist but now i am mostly staying home.. its hard for me to spend time at expo's , and travel .. its hard for me to go to parties, meeting, ect.. to me this issue of cannbis is for my health only.. not to just party and have a great time.. i am not in the fast lane of society but in the very slow lane of the disabled …
    Cannabis has been a big part of my life.. and my concern is that i do not want it to be taken away from me.. i can not afford to spend monies at the store.. the cost is too high for my income and most of my income takes care of putting a roof over my head and food in my families mouth.. so we grow our own.. and that is the way it is.. for us.. but there are many whom are unable to do what we are doing.. or have that property to keep it from the eye of the public, nor have the monies to keep it secured.. and it takes monies.. in order to do so.. but still.. cannabis is there for us and many.. and we are allow to grow our own, transport our own, and be reinbursed out of pocket expence… so.. what is this fuss about.. is it about getting more dispensaries up and running legally and also doing away with the patients grow for themselves.. if this is so. then i will not support the initiatives that come about unless we also are protected.. and still allow to
    continue to grow our own.. and if the store fronts are able to sell their products , like all small business owned by a home owner should also be able to sell their products as well.. why is it only good for big corporations only, and do away with the mom and pop …
    there are many farm owners whom grow fruit and vegitables and grapes that do sell , and many are small groups whom sell what they grow.. on a small scale.. why should we be any diffrent, if your going to go to a new way of doing things.. of course i am concern.. especially if this is going to take away from me and me obtaining my cannabis and not be able to grow my own,, or allow others in a small group of 20 to grow with us.. in unity.to fit our medical needs.. then this will be a problem.. and my vote do count .. .
     
    I am not going to waste my life around this issue.. for i really do not know how much life i have in me.. and in reality no one really dose know.. when their time is up .. but sick people , even by our government are being treated like we are just wasted space amonst the living.. as they continue to take our programs away from us.. well.. if store fronts only are allowed, and only big farmers only are allowed to provide these store fronts with cannabis product then you are taking our freedom away from us and forcing us to depend upon the store to obtain our cannabis and pay taxes on it also.. but to put a tax on a patient/ or citizen whom grows for themselves or a few others is wrong..
     
    i many not understand this initiative.. but i read it .. and i read it to try to understand what it really is about.. but my mind is simple now.. due to my illness.. and its hard for me sometimes to understand.. i am not afraid what those on this list may think of me.. on what i share.. but  i share honestly of my insite is of my surroundings.. and i am not active in the activism anymore, nor do i go to meetings anymore.. but i stay incontact by reading what is out there on many list. and its confusing not just to me but many others..
     
    I am a voter still .. and i stay up on this issue as much as my understanding would allow me to.. and my husband tries to explain to me over and over again.. but then its frustrating to him.. not that i blame him for my memory is out the window.. but what do you expect from someone that is working on dead braincells..lol.. anyway..
     
    i have to share.. i have to let you know from a patients view of this issue.. and how important it is for me to continue utalizing cannbis.. for medical purposes.. but over the years things have changed.. in my view.. things have changed more so than most would have it outside of the community of cannbis.. lets regulate, lets control, lets profittize off of the cannabis.. that is how i am seeing it.. now everyone has a way of getting a recomendation easily than before when i got one.. it was hard.. to get one.. but now days everyone is able to receive.. lolol
    Cannabis is now out there more so than ever.. in movies, in tv shows, in the news, now more so than ever.. cannabis has a voice.. and now we are going forward on trying to legalize cannbis.. for everyone to utalize.
     
    Most that i have read on this list .. some say that using the medical term behind cannabis is a mokery.. a smoke screen .. and most are not really sick.. but use it in order to obtain cannabis.. which is true. so.. there is a solution out there.. and the big people in the know.. is going toward that new path in the cannabis world.. but all i ask is that you do not take my freedome away from me.. to grow my own.. to help others obtain that also can not afford the high prices due to their income.. .. i utalize allot of cannbis for my illness and have been since i have been growing.. and it benifits me and keeps my illness somewhat under control and i do not have to take all those pharmacuticle drugs that kept me in the dark pit and i have lost years of reality behind that.. and personally i do not want to walk that road again.. for no one…
     
    I do not have monies to change the world, so to speak.. and no that many friends, due to me being homebound.. and i do have physical issus as well as mental issues.. and some people think i am really crazy at some times.. but what ever.. i am still a member of the cannabis movement, even if i am not part of it in form.. but i am in voice.. and i hope that more patients outside of the active part of the cannabis movement will come forth and voice their opions on this issue..
     
    i agree that providers for thousands of people should not go through the court system.. and many have gone through the front lines and paid a big price in doing so.. but how many more must be going through this and having their families torn apart due to this issue.. one case .. Joe Grumbine and Joe have been found guilty.. and i must agree with them on the part of how they were treated in the court room .. and it was terrible to say the least.. I met Joe and Liz and even spent time with them.. but still this is tearing his family apart behind this issue.. as well as others whom also are facing the courts due to them being providers.. we the members of the cannabis movement should have a choice.. to deceide if we want to go to a store front to obtain, for most they feel safer in doing so.. instead of having a delivery service or being apart of a group grow, due to circumstance.. to say the least..
     
    I am sorry that i am long winded on this .. i never intended to be.. but this is an important issue.. how can i vote to change what is.. if i do not completly understand it.. and i can not just vote yes to anything unless i understand how it is going to affect me and others in my shoes.. some are worse off then me.. more so. than i can imagine..
     
    My heart is with those whom are now spending time in jail , or having thier children being ripped from their arms and taken away to only what they understand.. , but lets not forget the ones that have gone and killed someone or a couple whom had cannabis.. lets not forget those take advantage.. crime is everywhere,,no matter what it may be.. a jewlery store, a bank, a fast food resturant.. ect.. that is the fact.. its not just the cannabis..
     
    For me.. its a medical issue.. that is important to me.. to others is non medical.. but i do know that more states are comming on board with the medical use of cannabis..
     
    I understand that the younger generation and even some of the older generation wants to have fun.. but really.. booze is legal, tobacco is legal, and they kill many citizens .. but cannabis is allot healthier.. so to say the least .. i am totally torn on this issue of legalization…
    i rather be able to grow it like i do my herbs and vegitables that i get from the store.. and not pay taxes.. just because i choose to grow ..or have to pay a high price just to be able to get permission to grow and have a home business.. .. a regular business never had to pay high just to be in business.. but with cannabis.. its a diffrent story.. now i feel you want to take my rights away from me.. and my freedom to grow my own…
     
    anyway.. that is my insite.. right, wrong, or indiffent.. this is my voice on this issue..
    anyway.. you all have a great New Year to come..
     
    ..
     
    La Vonne..
     
     
     
     
     
    s
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Thank you to those who have intro'ed  yourselves.
     
    If we were @ a convention meeting where we didn't know each other, say, we were all in a circle in a room, don't the rest of you feel like you'd offer your name & org connection? Or would you wear a mask & disguise your voice? Or offer your name but not share what org you were representing? Shouldn't we make the distinction between someone speaking for an org or for themselves? If I'm aware you are speaking for an org, I'm gonna listen differently which is not to say I don't hear an individual speaking for herself. If I see your .org suffix, shall I assume you are speaking for your group? If you don't have an .org suffix, is it safe to assume you are just speaking for yourself?
     
    This IS an open place and cause I wanna know who you are, where you are coming from & how you relate to this movement, so I can put my own thinking into YOUR words, doesn't make me feel like I'm prying or asking too much of you. Assume the cops know about each & every one of us anyway! What is there to hide?
     
    This is far from labeling, it is sharing with people with whom we have chosen to share concepts.
     
    And, we should not assume, except perhaps for a couple names, that everyone here is known to others.
     
    I offer these thoughts with love & peace & am motivated by a desire to keep moving this conversation forward.
     
    I stand for the legalization of marijuana and the accessibility of MM. I stand for community control, which is to say, CORPORATE NOT. I've almost fifty adult years of activism (yeah, I'm old!) including arrests & prison time as a GI during Vietnam and a pot felony conviction in this decade. I am a co-founder of Veteran's Speakers Alliance of the SF Bay Area, a chef & visual artist.
     
    We all have many, many common interests here and there is an incredible variety of strategies and tactics suggested in these conversations providing many directions for continued forward momentum. We don't have to agree on all of them but we must agree to be open and honest in our conversations.
     
    Thanks for listening. Have a wonderful warm & illuminating weekend.
     
    Peace,
     
     
    Hal Muskat
    Veterans For Peace
    "Sir, No Sir!"
     
    "I think because I can't code. I'm an artist because I can't think enough."
     
     
     
     
     
    On 12/23/11 8:56 AM, Letitia Pepper wrote:
     
     
     
     
          In response to Hal Muskat's relevant query about the background of people sending info in to "save cannabis" :
         I am an attorney, an activist and a patient. 
         I've been an attorney since 1982 when I passed the California bar. 
         I've been an activist since 1970 when I went to my first municipal land use-related meeting as a teenager with my mother and watched elected officials blatantly LIE to the audience in order to carry out their plan of developing, into a mall, one of the very rare California coastal wetlands near Carlsbad, California. 
          I've been a patient since 1993, when I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. 
          I've been a patient who uses cannabis as medicine since 2007, when I learned how cannabis helps people with so many different diseases and WHY it does.
          I've been a cannabis activist and anti-lying-to-patients activist since 2010, when, as an activist, I intended to work on Prop. 19 to "legalize marijuana!" and, having then actually READ the damned thing, realized it was all a trick to take away patients' good, existing rights under Prop. 215.
          And, while I was originally going to support and work to pass Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act 2012, after re-reading that initiative and thinking about it, I realized that I'd missed something very significant that it does almost as an after thought to "repealing prohibition": 

     

    "s..s@a2c2.us" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 08:24AM -0800  

    DMV,
     
    I stopped responding because you are a lost cause and an endless argument based in loose interpretation and semantic wordplay. That shit is tiring. For those of us who live here in earth, and who do not see everything fun and enjoyable as a medical procedure, we have real work to do. When you come back to reality maybe we can finish the conversation. No sense in arguing with the inherently lost and in denial.
     
    Be well…..Mickey
     
    Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
     
    —–Original message—–
    Sent: Sun, Dec 25, 2011 18:41:57 GMT+00:00
     
     
    > OK, then…
     
    > I'm not a bawling rambling drunk… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects
    > of alcohol for my social anxiety disorder.
     
    I'm not a chain smoker… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects of tobacco
    > for my unobstructed airway syndrome.
    > I'm not hyper… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects of coffee for my
    > lethargy.
     
    “No valid conclusion as to the use of a thing can be drawn from its abuse.”
    Ancient Latin maxim, Stockdale v. Hansard, Lord Denman
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    > You're confusing "whether it has medical effects" with "whether people are
    > using it medically".
     
    You are focusing on the abuse of drugs as an excuse to keep our community
    divided.
     
    I am focusing on the potential proper use of drugs as a method of keeping
    our community united.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    > While you may not see a difference, the public does.
     
    "*They who have put out the people's eyes, reproach them for their blindness
    *" – John Milton
     
     
     
     
     
     

     

    Russ Belville <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 27 12:14PM -0800  

    You know what doesn't serve the movement well? Organizing to defeat Prop
    19. Or giving aid and comfort to those who do.
     
    Russ Belville
    NORML Outreach Coordinator
     
    Social Networks: @RadicalRuss and @NORMLNet
    Shipping: 4110 SE Hawthorne Blvd. #161 – Portland, OR 97214
    Phone:(phone#-removed) – Fax:(phone#-removed)
     
    *Keep fighting only for medical marijuana and marijuana will become medical
    only.*
    *Hemp’s not illegal because marijuana is a drug; marijuana’s illegal
    because hemp is an oil.*
    *The most amazing thing about cannabis is its ability to addle the brains
    of those who do not use it.*
     
     
     
    On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 8:20 PM, William G. Panzer

     

    Sjss <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 28 12:18PM -0800  

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Respect is due equally.
     
    Sent from my iPhone
     

     

    Sjss <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 28 12:19PM -0800  

    Not saying I am
    Organizing or oppose rather that respect of each otter is a must.
     
    Sent from my iPhone
     

     

    Mickey Martin <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 27 07:27AM -0800  

    Word games never kept anyone out of jail
    Posted by Mickey Martin on December 27th, 2011
    Triple Word Score?
    So the debate rages on after Steve Deangelo dropped the “I do not believe in legalization of cannabis for recreational use” card on the final episode of Weed Wars. The Deangelo brothers have been called turncoats, hypocrites, and busters by America’s cannabis community for their inability to manage the message and willingness to throw the entire legalization effort out the window, in what one can only assume is an action of self-preservation under the attack of Federal pressure, and the pressure of being the new American TV sweetheart.
    So then Steve tried to walk back his (and his brother’s) disastrous statements in major media outlets by stating this:
    The term “recreational cannabis” was imposed from outside our movement. It’s time to define our own lexicon of cannabis. -Steve Deangelo
    Is that what the fuck you were doing? Maybe that is what you should have said. Instead of saying “I do not support legalization of cannabis for recreational use,” you should have said “I do not like the term recreational.” And when you say “our” who exactly are you talking about? If I were to define my own “lexicon” of cannabis it would not be intertwined with the medical industry. The term “medicine” carries too much baggage in our society to deem all cannabis use as such. You may not like the term “recreational,” but that is the common terminology being used to define non-medical cannabis use.
    So let us look at this evil word “recreation” that has been imposed upon us.
    rec·re·a·tion/ˌrekrēˈāSHən/ (noun)- Activity done for enjoyment when one is not working.
    Well I can see where your issue is. Your employees use cannabis for enjoyment WHILE working, so I can see why you do not like this terminology. I mean, when Terryn ate the edible in episode 4 while working he did not seem to be seeking health and wellness; nor when he sat there looking confused and messing up the ladies order did he seem well. He seemed confused and disoriented, while performing customer service…..so I can see how you think “recreational” does not fit because of the “not working” thing. But that does not seem to be the rub with you guys.
    Here is what Andrew Deangelo said in a tweet that further confuses the situation:
    Recreation is an activity, not a commodity. Try to ingest recreation, just try it. It cannot be done. -Andrew Deangelo
    So this is where you want to hang your hat on this debacle? On the term recreation? So you are saying that because one cannot ingest “recreation” that your statement against legalizing cannabis for recreational use is somehow more valid or less offensive? I do not think so….under the same premise you cannot “ingest” health and wellness either. Just try it. It cannot be done. It is a state or condition…not a commodity. So what was the point you were trying to make again?
    Word games never kept anyone out of jail. While you fuckers are over there dancing around the semantics of what is recreation and what is wellness, and if because recreation makes you feel well is it also medicinal and can we sell weed to anyone who wants to recreate because they are actually performing health and wellness activities?…blah, blah, blah. STFU! You cannot decide that you want to play word games in order to dance around the fact that you threw the entire legalization effort under the bus. America did not hear that you think recreational is a bad “lexicon.” What they heard is that you “do not support legalization.” That is it. You  see…you actually have to change the lexicon BEFORE shitting all over it. You have to make the distinction between your displeasure with the term recreational and your preference for health and wellness; and on top of that, you have to get people to buy into that. NEWSFLASH: People are not buying into
    it.
    Instead, you decided to shit on the term that most of America uses to describe non-medical and non-therapeutic uses of cannabis. The only impression that the public took away from the final message of your big show was “those guys do not support legalization.” They are not sitting there pondering your definition or disapproval of the word “recreational.” They heard the message….”DO NOT SUPPORT LEGALIZATION.” And that is a very dangerous message right now, as we inch closer and closer to that goal.
    Look….I prefer the term “adult enjoyable use”; others prefer “social use” or “personal use.” The fact is that it is okay to like those terms and use them, but realize that this is not the term most people use. Me and my wannabe hipster friends call cars “whips”; but if I call my mom and say “Hey ma…I got a new whip,” she would politely respond with “what is a whip?” Why? Because this is not the common terminology most understood by wide portions of our society. We use the term “car” because everyone understands that. The same way everyone understands “recreational vs. medical” uses of cannabis…..well, everyone but you guys apparently.
    You can continue to play the game of bullshit semantics if you like, but the fact is that you made a fatal error in your messaging. And instead of manning up and saying that you misspoke or were mistaken, you continue to take us on some unwanted field trip to the health and wellness factory that is Harborside’s dreamland. Instead of saying, “That is not what I meant,” you continue to try and convince us all that we are wrong and that your new found definition for being “whacked out on edibles” at a softball game is the right way to go. It just does not hold water and you guys should scrap the bullshit and stand up for what is right….legalization of cannabis for whatever fucking type of use you want…recreation, social, enjoyable, adult, health and wellness…whatever. We are grown ass people. We should not have to dance around some stupid word games to make people understand that legalizing cannabis is the right thing to do. You guys
    failed to bring that message. Your message instead was “Fuck legalization.” And that is what is so sad.
     
    Mickey Martin
    T-Comp Consulting Director
    www.cannabiswarrior.com
    www.tcompconsulting.com
    s..s@a2c2.us
    (phone#-removed)
    http://twitter.com/CANNABISconsult
     
     
    ***The views expressed in this communication are not necessarily the views of T-Comp Consulting, Tainted Compassion, West Coast Cannabis, Cannabis Warrior any other group I am affiliated with.***