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May 26, 2012 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 24 Messages in 10 Topics



    Bud <s..s@a2c2.us> May 25 04:13PM -0700  

    Words have consequences, even in the free-wheeling atmosphere of this
    "discussion" group. Spirited debate is fine, but that's not what happens
    here most days. Just accusations and counter-accusations, with ASA being
    the latest whipping boy. Some of the ASA-bashing has bordered on libel.
    I thought the Prop. 19 "debate" got nasty, but that was a pillow fight
    compared to some of the nonsense I've read here in recent days and weeks.
    Ever since the feds lost their collective minds, it seems like it's open
    season on anyone and everyone who doesn't support the
    legalization/regulation proposal *du jour*. It's tremendously disheartening
    to witness, even for those of us sitting in the cheap seats, and it also
    plays into the divide-and-conquer strategy of federal/local law
    enforcement. So does the pointless debate between medical-only and
    adult-use strategies; we need people to champion both causes.
    Passionate people can and will disagree. Effective communicators learn to
    do so without bashing their opponents' brains in verbally, ripping off
    1,000-word rants on short notice and/or unfairly questioning others'
    sincerity or talents. Let she who is without sin cast the first stoner
    under the Cannabus.
    Have a mellow weekend, everyone, and please tone it down when the
    discussion resumes.




    Tracey Chen <s..s@a2c2.us> May 25 02:24PM -0700  

    I'm with you 100% too, Rose! I, too, have to put that to RP…if he can't stand firmly in favor of freedom/everyone out of everyone else's uterus/mind your own business, then to my mind he has no right calling himself libertarian, and he doesn't understand the concepts he's trying to sell.
    On May 25, 2012, at 12:48 PM, rose jeri wrote:
    > I have put it to Ron Paul that if he is a true constitutionalist, he must allow a woman to have control of her body the same as a man has. His solution is to make the freedom to abortion a state right and I reply that if the constitution abides, then a state can not reenact slavery and similarly a state can not invade the privacy of a woman with her doctor.
    Tracey Chen
    3626 South Court
    Palo Alto, CA 94306



    David Malmo-Levine <s..s@a2c2.us> May 25 02:17PM -0700  

    "With Judge Gray running patients will no longer be able to grow at home!
    He is against it."
    Where did Judge Gray come out against patients growing at home? Judge Gray
    was one of the people behind RMLW – which allowed for home growing.


    "Dr. David Bearman" <s..s@a2c2.us> May 25 06:23PM -0400  

    Look,we're talking tactics here,not electing Johnson and Gray. The idea would be that if e all throw are weight behind them ,not because of their Libertarian position on everything but drugs and the war in Afghanistan and they get 3-10% of the vote,both the Democrats and Republicans ill have to take notice of our issue. A swing of as little as one or two per percentage points. This tactic(supporting Johnson/Gray) is likely to cut into both the Republican and Democratic vote totals.
    This tactic or something like it is the only thing that the politicians understand. Look we have public opinion on our side. We have prominent commissions on our side. We have the facts on our side. We have log on our side. e have pharmacology on our side. We have economics on our side. So far none of this has been persuasive enough to the two major political parties. It appears that they only understand power and hard ball politics i suggest that we need to play a little hard ball and this is one suggestion. If others have a better idea or ant to refine this one, I'm all ears.
    This issue is beyond the tipping point. We must press our advantage. The current compulsiveness of the presidential race and Obama's personal hostiry of marijuana use gives use leverage. We need to use that power. I
    David Bearman




    Matthew Meyer <s..s@a2c2.us> May 25 03:46PM -0700  

    David, thanks for asking that question. I'd like a link, too, because in a
    10-minute Google search I didn't find any source claiming Jim Gray opposes
    home grows.
    On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 2:17 PM, David Malmo-Levine

    Matthew Meyer
    PhD Candidate
    Anthropology Department
    University of Virginia


    Matthew Meyer <s..s@a2c2.us> May 25 02:19PM -0700  

    Rose, as a point of information, Donna wrote "found drowned in 5 *feet* of
    You wrote, "five *inches* of water."
    One of those sounds quite a lot more suspicious than the other, so let's
    just be clear what was said.

    Matthew Meyer
    PhD Candidate
    Anthropology Department
    University of Virginia


    "Axis of Love SF, Shona Gochenaur" <s..s@a2c2.us> May 25 08:03PM -0700  

    I am glad that smeone else finaly also offered sincere condoloances to
    donna on this list. And I think mickey is being honest to you about
    how some well meaning folks are haveing problems digesting what your
    dishing out. I dont think anyone thinks that asa is out for anyone but
    themselves and their clients. Thats for all purposes is a fact thats
    surfaced to most everyone. But where I personaly get lost? Is why did
    you alert duncan and elford? If they have indeed creatd not only a
    business lobby but a cultlike situation where they do indeed beleive
    they are above the law and have comitted crimes such as stalking and
    deaththreats or even a masonlike shutup murder ? Why tell them game
    over.just pull the plug. If youve got strong evidence? Share with us
    all? As youve shared your story and alertd "them" . I dont want you to
    be dissmissed as vengeful or crazy while recognizeing if in your
    shoes? i would probably be both. And ive been accused of being both
    when questioning nationalpolicy orgs current leadership .

    Shona Gochenaur
    Executive Director
    Axis of Love SF



    Mickey Martin <s..s@a2c2.us> May 25 08:26AM -0700  

    Criticism Can Be Healthy…..
    Posted by Mickey Martin on May 25th, 2012
    Okay…so the next person who says COINTELPRO gets bitchslappped.
    I am fairly sick of hearing people bring shit like this up any time a person criticizes another person or organization in cannabis reform. I cannot for the life of me imagine why people feel the need to bring forward some conspiracy theory shit based in their “experiences in the 1960′s” and attempt to dismiss valid criticisms or concerns as some government attempt to infiltrate our movement. It is weak and unnecessary.
    I am not saying that there are not some Feds that have infiltrated our movement. I am sure there are. In fact, I might go as far as saying that some very prominent people in this movement may be involved in some nefarious shit. But since I do not have evidence of this in any way, I do not run around trying to create doubt in people that I am not sure of. I have my theories and I keep an eye on some folks more than others; but the basic fact is that I am not sure of shit, so I do not run around passively aggressively inserting rhetoric about them possibly being a Fed into the conversation. These conversations usually start like this…”Your constant criticisms of the leadership remind me of the COINTELPRO types of operations that we saw in the 60′s. Now I am not accusing you of being a Fed….” Yawn. Um, yeah…you kind of fucking are.
    I have been the victim of these off-color and cowardly types of slander repeatedly by some pretty big names in the old cannabis reform movement. I am a big boy. I can take it. I think it says a lot about the people who make these backwards accusations. I think those who are willing to try and stop a critical conversation by bringing the Feds into the deal and creating doubt about people by inferring they are COINTELPRO may really have something to hide. Why else would they attempt to derail a healthy conversation in such a manner? If people REALLY thought someone was a FED acting as COINTELPRO would they announce it on an email list? NO…but it is an exercise to control and dismiss a conversation…usually one that hits way too close to home for their comfort.
    But why are people in this movement so scared of criticisms? I have heard people say, “Do we have time to be critical of people in the movement? Our enemy is the Feds and we should only be critical of them”
    I compare this to driving. It would be as if a person said “When driving we need to only worry about the roads. That is the only danger. Never look under the hood of the car. Never change the oil. Never get new tires. The only thing to worry about are the roads.” That is just an absurd notion and one I am not comfortable with. If we can not examine the vehicles we are using to travel the journey of cannabis freedom then chances are we will continue to sputter along. If we tuned up and modified our vehicles for real performance we may actually win a race or something.
    Criticism IS healthy. People work harder, do more, and stay more honest when they believe they are being critiqued. Look at the cannabis reform movements. MPP, ASA, NORML, and DPA have all had the same leadership for a decade…..some for several decades (do not give me the St. Pierre crap, as Stroup is still very much running the show). Does anyone think it might be time for a change? Maybe some new direction? Or are we going to keep doing the same bullshit and expect different results? I understand there are a lot of crazy people in the cannabis reform game, but do we have to practice group insanity all the time?
    I think it is fair to look around and do some real self-examination. We could use some real and honest self-purification in this industry.
    My criticism is this….none of the folks currently in leadership positions in the cannabis reform game are going to lead this movement to the promised land. It is just not gonna happen. There is a lack of Reality, Focus, Motivation, Optimism, Fight, Heart, and Action. The reason there is no unity in this community is because there is no valued leadership. You can call me an asshole. You can disagree with my opinions. You can try to defend the current system of cannabis royalty. But when you look long and hard at the facts, the history and the current state of affairs, it becomes pretty clear that there is a lot to be desired at the top of the cannabis reform game.
    That is healthy criticism…..hopefully the heads of state will read this and either step their fucking game up or step the fuck aside and let someone else make the moves we need to end cannabis prohibition once and for all. At least that is my hope. I am critical of people and organizations because I expect better and demand more from my leadership and fellow soldiers. I am no Yes Man. If that makes people’s feelings get hurt, then so be it. I am not here to make friends. I am here to make weed legal.
    I am happy when others criticize me. It makes me examine, retool, and work harder. All exercises I very much enjoy; but I am in tune with my assets and liabilities. I understand that I sometimes come up short, and in the criticisms of myself I find ways to grow or to build alliances that help me to accomplish the task at hand. It is healthy. I enjoy it. And every time a person is critical of me, I do not automatically dismiss them as a Fed trying to infiltrate my perimeter. Get a grip. Learn to grow. Learn to learn…Learn to use criticisms as a building block to greatness.
    Mickey Martin
    T-Comp Consulting Director
    Author of Medical Marijuana 101
    ***The views expressed in this communication are not necessarily the views of T-Comp Consulting, Tainted Compassion, Cannabis Warrior any other group I am affiliated with.***


    s..s@a2c2.us May 24 11:39PM -0400  

    My contribution…
    I am very fortunate to have been a part of several successful business
    ventures in Silicon Valley. In each of the situations for which I was able to
    contribute, whether it was small company successes or large companies that
    were either bought out or went public, we as management either had to be
    self aware enough to realize our limitations at some point in the process or
    just be told directly. If there was ever a chance of achieving the ultimate
    goals, knowing when to step aside and bring in better, more experienced,
    or even just equivalent but different leadership was proven over and over
    again as an understood necessity. It was the same if you were a middle or
    lower level manager, but even more direct – if you didn't meet certain
    critical performance standards, you were replaced or reassigned as soon as
    possible. Whether you are a top flight restaurant or a college university trying
    maintain recognition, whether a successful baseball team or Hewlett Packard
    – occasional change of guard was understood as a difficult but necessary
    strategy for success – and sometimes even survival.
    IMHO – After years of observing the progress of the leading groups in the
    movement/industry and after what I consider extensive research of the
    actual successes, failures and public statements of the leadership, and by
    taking input from several trusted friends deeply and factually aware of most of
    the activities throughout, I have come to what for me is an obvious
    conclusion – if I had the performance record similar to a large percentage of the
    current leadership I would be replaced or fired by now. Again, difficult
    but necessary. As we all must admit, there are times in each of our lives
    when we become so heavily involved in a particular situation that it becomes
    difficult to retain the ability to objectively critique our own
    performance. Add a little ego and pride to that mix and like a lot of great old
    ballplayers (and business leaders!), we fail to learn until too late that it's
    time to either move on or retire. Again, difficult but necessary.

    Accountability & Responsibility – dynamic words that seem to form the
    basis for a lot of what we are all talking about, loaded with meaning and
    certainly ones that very few of us can live up to or fully apply to our daily
    lives. Some need to try harder than others. I am making the attempt myself
    by doing my best to learn to face certain realities and stop lying to
    myself – it's a difficult habit to break but by participating in and being
    energized by the kind of intelligent, lively and opinionated discussions we have
    here, I have faith in myself and believe more than ever that WE WILL
    I have hope for us all.



    R Givens <s..s@a2c2.us> May 25 05:58AM -0700  

    I want an initiative that has ZERO criminal penalties. No one should
    ever go to prison for a "marijuana crime."
    Writing such a law is simple- just leave out anything suggesting a
    criminal offense.
    The main thing is total legalization for adult use.
    R Givens


    Terry Vail <s..s@a2c2.us> May 25 01:02AM -0700  

    Good luck to you! Give em a run!