Monthly Archives: March 2015

Is THC an “intoxicant”?

From: savecannabis – January 1, 1970

Re DC Williams’ comments that people who use cannabis don’t want to admit that it is an intoxicant when since it ends with an “ol” it is actually an alcohol. I wish I had a stronger grounding in science I have always assumed that the reason that THC isn’t an intoxicant is that too much of it won’t kill you unlike too much grain (or wood) alcohol. Because the “toxic” in “intoxicant” I assumed meant “toxic” as in “fatally toxic.” But something can be toxic without being fatally so and I know that too much THC for someone not acclimated to it can make them feel sick as in poisoned but not fatally. Bur what about this Is there any other form of alcohol to which people can actually develop a tolerance without any organ damage Because I know people who use a lot of cannabis who don’t get high any more but still get all the medicinal effects for which they use it. One of them who was disabled in Iraq. said some old guys Vietnam vets told him that the high is just a side effect like other medicines have side effects and they told him he needed to use more saturate himself with it in lotions and food and by inhaling and then the side effect would go away. So he did and that’s what happened but not only did the side effects go away but he got back function the VA said he’d never get back. So THC may be an alcohol but it’s not like any other alcohol about which I know. From: “David Williams SFBayCannabisCommunity” To: “” Sent: Thursday March 26 2015 12:15 PM Subject: Re: SFBayCannabisCommunity Why alcohol-related arrests increased after the end of alcohol prohbition will say a lot about how we should end cannabis prohibition As far as I know the only alcohol that was subject of prohibition and “relegalized” by the constitutional amendment referencing it as “intoxicating spirits” is ethanol “grain alcohol” which was what was and is easy to make and use for fuel via yeast fermentation of starches and sugars the kind of people drink and that is harmless to the touch etc. The other kind of alcohol that can be used for fuel I believe is “legal” but harder to made requiring a bit of more advanced technology pyrolysis ie the kind that can be readily made from cellulose like hemp methanol or “wood alcohol” which is toxic and not even very safe to the touch as it can be absorbed through the skin pretty much like gasoline in that regard but slightly worse. Small amounts of methanol are often added to ethanol grain alcohol to made it poisonous and is called denatured alcohol to get around the onerous taxation of grain alcohol and is commercial quasi-legal status as described in this thread. So if CCHI passage will enable a hemp methanol fuel industry under current laws we need not wait for 2018 or wait to include promotion of this major environmental and economic benefit to decrimlegalization and it can be include aggressively in promotions of CCHI so California can lead the nation In creating the new hemp fuel industry with all those jobs and profits etc In addition the current laws about ethanol have loopholes enabling folks to grow things like sugar beets and ferment them to make ethanol for fuel see a book called “Alcohol Can be a Gas” so long as it is strictly used for fuel and not human consumption usually accomplished by mixing it with gasoline in small percentages for end use where burning pure alcohol in an engine requires some carburetor adjustments so not very feasible to alternate between alcohol and gasoline in a given engine. Remember THC is also an alcohol delta-9 Tetrahydrocannibinol as is any chemical with -ol on the end of its chemical name eg glycerol (glycerin) ethylene glycol (anti-freeze toxic). I still think a chemical argument can be made that THC is an “intoxicating spirit” like ethanol for the purpose of it being legal per same constitutional amendment but cannabis proponents don’t want to admit THC is intoxicating and want to imagine it is more “spiritual” because shiva yogis in India smoke it. On Mar 26 2015 at 11:00 AM SFBayCannabisCommunity wrote: The CCHI fairly legalizes industrial Hemp as well as Cannabis…but we still can’t turn it into fuel bc we so thoroughly lost alcohol prohibition. We have to “legalize” alcohol in 2018 to create the full circle of sustainability we once knew. The lesson from alcohol prohibition is clear though “legal” can mean anything…we parrot Jack often “If YOU can’t grow it it isn’t legal” but back in the day the battle cry should have been “If we can’t make our own fuel alcohol isn’t legal”… Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. From: David Williams SFBayCannabisCommunitySent: Thursday March 26 2015 10:37 AMTo: Letitia Pepper letitiapepperyahoo.comReply To: SFBayCannabisCommunityyahoogroups.comSubject: Re: SFBayCannabisCommunity Why alcohol-related arrests increased after the end of alcohol prohbition will say a lot about how we should end cannabis prohibition How will CCHI enable widespread growing of cannabis hemp from which alcohol (methanol) fuel to be fairly easily made to replace petroleum fuel Jack Herer maintained that a small percentage of fallow US “soil bank” farmland grown in hemp for such foul could replace all the oil we burn. Is this a part of what CCHI would enable for California if passed into law If not what might be the value of including such wording and making it part of the effort to fully relegalization with CCHI On Mar 26 2015 at 10:07 AM SFBayCannabisCommunity wrote: Alcohol prohibition was about fuel…all our cars can run on alcohol half of the cars at the beginning of alcohol prohibition ran on some part home made fuel. After the War ended people for decades tried to continue making fuel and we’re arrested in huge numbers. That’s what we lost when won alcohol prohibition 10 cent a gallon clean sustainable fuel What did that cost us since…trillions half a dozen real wars thousands of Oil spills the cancers ect…that’s why we fight using the CCHI to actually legalize Cannabis to avoid repeating history. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. From: Letitia Pepper SFBayCannabisCommunitySent: Wednesday March 25 2015 11:19 PMTo:; Northern California Libertarians; Save Cannabis; Global; California Cannabis CoalitionReply To: SFBayCannabisCommunityyahoogroups.comSubject: SFBayCannabisCommunity Why alcohol-related arrests increased after the end of alcohol prohbition will say a lot about how we should end cannabis prohibition Hi Healthfreedom You may have meant that those before and after alcohol arrest statistics were all alcohol-related but I just wanted to see if the information on which you relied makes that clear or not. Language is a tricky thing. I’m trying to think of why after alcohol prohibition ended alcohol-related arrests went up. For example were there arrests for public intoxication because before Prohibition public inebriation wasn’t a crime Or were there arrests for selling alcohol in violation of some law because before Prohibitionthere were no laws about selling alcohol at all You can see how this all relates to the current issue of “ending” cannabis prohibition. I for one can easily see how “legalizing marijuana” in the way that the CCPR has in mind — without full adult decriminalization of cultivation possession and use — will lead to more arrests more incarcerations and more fines and need for attorneys and attorney fees. No wonder NORML and CalNORML have never supported the Jack Here initiative CCHI which includes almost full adult decriminalization. (It’s ALMOST full decriminalization because it does contain some limits on quantities.) From: “ SFBayCannabisCommunity” To: Sent: Wednesday March 25 2015 10:14 PM Subject: Re: SFBayCannabisCommunity Re: More people went to jail in the 10 years after Alcohol prohibition than during the 10 years that prohibiton lasted Of course I mean for alcohol related crimes and it has everything to do with HOW we legalize Cannabis. Everything Citations to come but everyone can do their own due diligence. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. From: Letitia Pepper SFBayCannabisCommunitySent: Wednesday March 25 2015 9:31 PMTo:; Global; Save Cannabis; California Cannabis Coalition; Northern California LibertariansReply To: SFBayCannabisCommunityyahoogroups.comSubject: SFBayCannabisCommunity Re: More people went to jail in the 10 years after Alcohol prohibition than during the 10 years that prohibiton lasted Hi Healthfreedom: That is a very very interesting fact. Thank you for sharing it. But I’d like a little more information if you have it. Does that statement mean that more people went to jail for crimes related to “legalized” alcohol in the 10 years after the end of alcohol Prohibition than went to jail during Prohibition for crimes related to criminalized alcohol Or does it simply mean just that more people went to jail for crimes in general after Prohibition ended Do you have any citation to places we can do more research on this information I’d like to read more about it to see how it might tie in with these various proposals on how to end cannabis prohibition. Thank youLetitia From: “ SFBayCannabisCommunity” To: Sent: Wednesday March 25 2015 7:58 PM Subject: Re: SFBayCannabisCommunity “Decriminalized” is not the same as “legal.” Understanding why requires understandingbelieving that you have inalienable rights that no king or contry has the right to “give” you. Lest we not forget…more people went to jail in the 10 years following the official end of alcohol prohibition than during the 10 years of alcohol prohibition. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. From: Letitia Pepper SFBayCannabisCommunitySent: Wednesday March 25 2015 1:44 PMTo: Global; Save Cannabis; SFBay Cannabis Community; California Cannabis CoalitionReply To: SFBayCannabisCommunityyahoogroups.comSubject: SFBayCannabisCommunity “Decriminalized” is not the same as “legal.” Understanding why requires understandingbelieving that you have inalienable rights that no king or contry has the right to “give” you. “Decriminalized” is not the same as “legal.” Understanding why requires understandingbelieving that you have inalienable rights that no king or country has the right to “give” you. Many Americans seem to have forgotten this. Legalization and decriminalization and legal and criminal are tricky words. “Decriminalized” is NOT the same as “legal.” “Decriminalization” just restores something to being an inalienable right that you don’t need the government’s permission to do. When anything is described as “legal” is sets up a presupposition that the government is allowing or permitting you to do it. Here’s an example. Is it “legal” to breathe People would naturally say yes but what they should say is “what are you talking about I don’t need the government’s permission to breathe — yet” Pass this on please We need to take back the language that is fueling the effort to retain cannabis Prohibition by merely “legalizing” cannabis without full decriminalization. From: Ruben MacBlue To: Letitia Pepper Sent: Tuesday March 24 2015 5:03 PM Subject: Re: 61 Vets Update Doing DC Its On Right Now jesus christ “adult” marijuana sounds like a porn drug. and “recreational” marijuana sounds like a jet ski party on lake tahoe how about “social bonding” marijuana “artistic enhancing” marijuana “motivational” marijuana “inspirational” marijuana “relaxing” marijuana (that might qualify as medical) “better-state-of-mindl” marijuana which would include “psychological and philisophical” marijuana and then there’s “staying cool” marijuana . . . and all of these tpes are either 1. “social” or 2. “self empowerment and inspiration” or 3. “enjoyment ” so therefore the best word to describe marijuana use other than “medical” without using the word “recreational” would be “enjoyment. ” non-medical marijuana could be should be called “enjoyment marijuana” gotta wrap my brain around yourconcept of differences between “decriminalization” and “legalization” for a minute . . . let’s see . . . legalization: to make an act legal by obtaining licensing fees taxes and restrictions decriminalization: to make an actlegal for everyone OK i think i got it now Ruben On Mar 22 2015 at 11:52 AM Letitia Pepper wrote: Hi Lanny Why isn’t anyone doing a poll on decriminalization That’s a very good question since one of the primary rationales that we are given for why we MUST vote for unacceptable initiatives like Prop. 19 is that “we need to stop people going to jail” Well legalization alone won’t stop people going to jail or prison; we need full adult decriminalization to stop arrests and incarcerations. Yet no one ever seems to run a poll on decriminalization. So any idea why the groups funding these polls never ask about decriminalization After all California’s Prop. 47 passed last time. I think the answer is that the groups funding polls don’t want decriminalization. Why” Because the people behind the groups can’t get a monopoly or oligopolies on marijuana unless they can take the right to cultivate away from the 99 percent and give it to the 1 percent. Speaking of groups I sure hope the Democrats don’t go with California gubernatorial candidate Gavin Newsom’s idea of huge license fees and taxes to “legalize” marijuana or with the new push by the DPA CalNORML NORML MPP and the-group-formerly-known-as-Prop.-19 to call it “Adult” marijuana instead of recreational marijuana. That last idea — to call it “adult” instead of “recreational” marijuana — is all part of the rather obvious plan to get rid of “medical marijuana” and push the ill and disabled into having to get and use prescription drugs instead of whole herbal marijuana. You can see this too can’t you Letitia From: Marijuana Anti-Prohibition Project To: Letitia Pepper Sent: Sunday March 22 2015 11:14 AM Subject: 61 Vets Update Doing DC Its On Right Now NationBuilder Brownie Mary Club Letitia — 61 -A RECORD NUMBERA new poll released by another respected polling organization theBenenson Strategy Group and SKDKnickerbocker charted a new high watermark for ending marijuana prohibition with 61 of American voters nowon the side of legalizing marijuana.Incredible Unbelievable Stop the PressesAlthough the majority of Americans agree its time to end marijuanaprohibition the way to do it hasnt been agreed on. A significantnumber of those who think marijuana should be legalized believe itshould only be done so with strict licensing requirements burdensomeregulations and onerous taxation. Although they may be a minority ofthose who believe marijuana should be legalized their numbers is whatgives us a majority.There is now a de facto coalition of people who make up themajority supporting legalization. Coming at the problem from manydifferent angles and different concerns makes coalitions fragile bynature. This coalition is further threatened by law enforcementobfuscating cajoling and inveighing against any measured steps towardending marijuana prohibition.Many of the people who have come to our side are for the first timein their lives taking a position opposite to the cops who they respectand even revere. It is an uncomfortable feeling so we better make damnsure they feel comfortable in our coalition.2016 is an election that is ours to lose. Lets not screw itup.To read about the survey in further detail and learn aboutRepublicans gender gaps and more CLICK HERE.VeteransForum Update the virtual paper trail revealed.I had more response to my story about the Veterans Forum thananything I have written in a while. This is an issue that reallystrikes at the absurdity of marijuana prohibition and generatesinterest in the larger community in which we live.Last weeks story ended with an email I sent to Ms. Fallen MedicalDirector for Loma Linda VA asking for additional information onhaving veterans who use mmj meet with Ms. Fallen and at her suggestionsome of the physicians under her supervision.I have received a reply email and I would like to share it withyou.Dear Mr. Swerdlow Thank you for following up with me. I shared the informationon the University of Washington CME course on marijuana and pain withour pain specialist. Unfortunately the Chief of the Department is onvacation this week and hasnt been able to review the program He willbe back next week and will look at it along with his key staff. Iwill also forward this email with the citation from the JAMA articleto them for review. I should be able to get back to you by the end ofnext week on their thoughts on moving forward. From the town hallcomments I understand this topic is important to Veterans. In talkingto our physicians patient safety is their biggest concern especiallywhen marijuana or other drugs are combined with opioids. I reasoneddialogue on these topic would probably be beneficial. Barbara FallenThere is definitely some water in the formerly empty VA glass butit hasnt gotten even near the halfway point yet. I wrote back:Hello Ms. FallenI couldn’t agree more with your conclusion that “reasoneddialogue on these topic would probably be beneficial” and I would takeout the word probably. That is why I asked for a meeting with you inorder to continue the reasoned dialogue that was begun at the VeteransForum on March 12.I look forward to your communication with the Chief of theDepartment and his review of the program with his key staff and lookforward to your letter by the end of next week.Other than to mention that you have spoken with your physiciansand that “patient safety is their biggest concern especially whenmarijuana or other drugs are combined with opioids” I did not hearanything about scheduling a meeting with you and your clinicians toaddress the issue of the use of medical marijuana by veterans at LomaLinda without losing their ability to fully participate in all VAservices. I would appreciate further communications on this as I needto coordinate such a meeting with the veterans who have interest inpursuing this further. I can assure you they look forward to beingable to participate in such a meeting with you and yourclinicians.SincerelyLanny Swerdlow RNCopies of all these emails are sent to Congressman Ruizs office sohe is aware of what is happening.Michael Kawitz from Veterans for Medical Marijuana and Ellen Kompfrom CaNORML kept running into stonewalls in trying to deal with localVA health officials. I do not doubt for a moment that if CongressmansRuiz office was not involved we would be having the same problems.But we are not and the line of communication is open. VA hospitalsare predicated on the scientific foundation of medical science and thescience is way way way on our side. As long as we can keepcommunicating mmj veterans will no longer have any problems with theVA and information on the medical efficacy of marijuana can and willbe provided by physicians and staff to those veterans requesting suchinformation.We all now eagerly await Ms. Fallens reply. Wouldnt this make agood documentary for PIVOTLannyDoes D.C.Thanks to the generous and pretty much all encompassing financialsupport of Sam Clauder of the CaliforniaCannabis Unity Campaign I will be attending theNational Unity Conference sponsored byAmericans for Safe Access in Washington D.C. fromMarch 27 to 31st.This is going to be a fascinating conference and major step in theright direction. The conference will feature a host of medicalmarijuana notables on both current medical and legal issues. Whatmakes this conference so special is that it is modeled on theCalifornia Unity Conferences ASA has sponsored for the last fouryears.Those conferences take place each year in Sacramento were attendeesare schooled on the issues and then trained how to lobby their electedofficials on current legislative bills. Then the attendees actually doit they go visit the offices of the elected officials in theirassembly and senate districts.The legislative lobbying focus of the National Unity Conference isthe CARERS Act which has a bipartisan coalition of sponsors includingmost recently California Senator Barbara Boxer. This bill would allowstates to enact medical marijuana laws free of any interference fromthe feds and also move marijuana from a schedule one drug to aschedule two drug which would certainly make research much easier andprovide access to a limited number of patients under rather onerousconditions.Although the bill is not without flaws it is significant and muchneeded step in the right direction signaling to the nation thatmarijuana prohibition was wrong from the get go. Using the alcohol vs.marijuana argument it will be easier to convince those voters whoremain skeptical of legalization if marijuana is no longer sodangerous that even research is banned.Even more to the point is if we can get Congress to exempt statesfrom federal law for medical marijuana then getting Congress toexempt states from federal law for those that legalize marijuana forall uses is not that far behind.Experienced lobbyist report that other than giving electedofficials campaign contributions the most significant way toinfluence them on an issue is by visiting their legislative offices.ASA has done that in Sacramento and they are now taking it to thenational level by training the attendees at the National UnityConference to meet and lobby their representatives and senators. Andmeet with them they will as ASA will make appointments for allconference attendees to meet with their Congressional Representativesand Senators in support of the CARERS Act.Organized lobbying by marijuana law reform advocates is scarcerthan hens teeth so this is a welcome recognition of reality and weare fortunate to have groups like ASA doing all the hard tiresome andoften thankless work that makes it possible for us to actually be aplayer in this game that is getting almost impossible for anyone toparticipate in except for a handful of gadzillionaires.Next weeks newsletter will be live from Washington D.C. HopefullyI will have some insider hot gossip to share with you.SPEAKING OF POLITICSThe BrownieMary Democratic Club of Riverside County is having theirmonthly teleconference this Sunday May 22 at 7 p.m. Theteleconference is open to everyone so if you are not a BMDC membermake the call and join with BMDC members in their meeting and learnwhat the club is all about.The number to call is(phone#-removed) and when thevoice speaks enter access code 275905.We have spoken about the importance of political action heresyour chance to learn about it first hand during an enjoyablecome-as-you-are teleconference this Sunday March 22 at 7 p.m.NEWSCHEDULED TIME TO HEAR COLUMNIST ON DRUG TESTING & HOW NEW ASSETFORFEITURE LAWS AFFECT MEDICAL MARIJUANA PATIENTS ON INTERNET RADIOSHOWThe times they are changing for the Internet podcast of MarijuanaCompassion and Common Sense. The show will no longer be podcast liveon Mondays at 6 p.m. Rather a new weekly show will be released eachSunday at midnight.No longer do you have to wait around biting your nails for the livepodcast you could hear the new show whenever you want like rightnow Just CLICKHERE.The new show is a real barnstormer featuring a much published andpublicized freelance writer looking at drug testing and an expertanalysis of how the new DOJ directive disallowing the use of federalasset forfeiture laws from being used by local and state police willaffect medical marijuana patients and providers.Gina Tron is an editor and freelance writer. She contributes andorhas contributed to The Washington Post Ladygunn VICE PoliticoDenver Westword XoJane Salon and more. She helped break the story onheroin in Vermont in 2014 with her stories in VICE and Politico. Herrecollection of being a suspected school shooter in VICE got herinternational recognition. Recently a thoughtful andhard-hitting column on Drug Testing that she authored appeared in theWashington Post. It has been seen read and discussed by millions.Although she has ventured into the world of drug prohibition beforeas Creative Director for Williamsburg Fashion Weekend her columnsquite often deal with less taboo subjects.Why was she motivated to write the column how did she come towrite it what has been the response and more will be discussed. Toread Ms. Trons column on Drug Testing published in the WashingtonPost CLICK HERE.The Department of Justice has issued a directive denying the use offederal asset forfeiture laws by state and local police to seizeproperty. This will have a major effect on medical marijuana patientsand providers. Just what this all means will be explained by OmarFigueroa a Sepbastopol attorney who has participated in numerousprecedent setting cases representing some of our movements pioneeractivists and continues to represent medical marijuana patients andproviders in their legal travails.Explaining just what the new DOJ directive does and doesnt do andtaking a look at how it will change the way patients and providersinteract with police Omar Figuerora will clarify it all with aminimum of legalese on how the law is changing and in terms that canbe readily understand.To listen to his weeks new show featuring Gina and Omar right nowCLICK HERE. To listen at later time and to guideyour friends to the best marijuana 247 talk show on the net take themwith you to: www.blogtalkradio.commarijuananews Marijuana Anti-Prohibition Project Brownie Mary Club CA United States This email was sent to To stopreceiving emails clickhere. You can also keep up with MarijuanaAnti-Prohibition Project on Twitteror Facebook. Createdwith NationBuilder the essential toolkit forleaders. .. 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