Tag Archives: Know When To Hold 'Em….Know When to Fold 'Em…..

January 7, 2012 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 8 Messages in 6 Topics

    Thc <s..s@a2c2.us> Jan 05 10:55PM -0800  

    Yep and it's been turned into council over the past 3 years. Amy should know this. I'm sure you can get copies of the CD's from any of the council members.
     
    Love,
    Momma D
     
    Sent from my iPhone
     

     

    aaron brown <s..s@a2c2.us> Jan 06 03:06PM -0800  

    good research ..Occupy Cannabis
     

     

    Weston Brent Mickey <s..s@a2c2.us> Jan 05 10:41PM -0800  

    Anyone who would like to show their support for the collectives in Lake
    County may do so by attending the Supervisors meeting next Tuesday.
     
    Weston Brent Mickey

     

 

    Dave Hodges <s..s@a2c2.us> Jan 06 12:13PM -0800  

    I've just been told the Southern Alameda County Crimes Task Force are
    CURRENTLY arresting everyone that comes to the door…
     
    -Dave
     
    ——————–
    *Pot Club to Open in Union City Without City Support*
     
    Green Cross Care Center opens today at 11 a.m. It will be the second
    medical marijuana dispensary open in the Tri-Cities.
    By Zoneil Maharaj and Nika Megino
     
    A medical marijuana dispensary is set to open its doors in Union City today
    at 11 a.m. But there’s one huge problem — the city never gave the center
    approval to open.
     
    Located at 34695 Alvarado-Niles Road, Green Cross Care Center is a
    nonprofit medical marijuana collective association that touts itself as
    providing “compassionate services and the highest quality medical cannabis
    at very reasonable prices,” according to the weedmaps.com
    website<http://legalmarijuanadispensary.com/?option=com_content&view=article&id=15280&Itemid=118>
    .
     
    According the dispensary’s Facebook
    page<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Green-Cross-Care-Center(phone#-removed)512>,
    the collective will be raffling off two “mega huge burrito size” joints and
    will be offering new patients a free eighth of an ounce of weed in honor of
    its grand opening.
     
    The business was slated to open Thursday but instead pushed its grand
    opening to Friday, according to a Green Cross Care Center secretary who
    could not comment on the business' operations. Business owners declined an
    interview with Patch.
     
    Late Thursday afternoon, employees were still setting up inside the store,
    which at the time had no signage to indicate a business was there.
     
    Word of the Green Cross Care Center’s opening was news to Economic and
    Community Development Director Joan Malloy, who said her department did not
    — and would not — approve any permits for medical marijuana dispensaries in
    Union City.
     
    “We don’t allow any use that is not consistent with state and federal law,
    and cannabis clubs are a clear violation of federal law,” Malloy said.
     
    Malloy added that the city will move forward with investigating the nature
    of Green Cross Care Center and its operations.
     
    She said that several dispensaries have tried to apply for business permits
    in the past but none have succeeded.
     
    “The code is really clear,” said Ben Horner of the Union City Police
    Department. “We’ve never had any trouble with [medical marijuana
    dispensaries]. They usually just move to another city.”
     
    With its opening, Green Cross Care Center becomes the second medical
    marijuana dispensary to open in the Tri-Cities in the past five months. The
    other, known as Happy Wellness Center, is located in Newark.
     
    *Pot Clubs in Newark Also Not Welcomed By City Leaders*
     
    The City of Newark has been clear about its opposition of medical marijuana
    dispensaries since the North Bay Dispensary
    (NBD<http://newark.patch.com/topics/nbd+cannabis+collective>)
    Cannabis Collective opened at 7180 Thornton Ave. in Newark in 2009.
     
    NBD closed in early
    December<http://newark.patch.com/articles/pot-club-s-slow-burning-saga-comes-to-close>
    but
    only after endless controversy and two years of several lawsuits.
     
    NBD’s closure came six months after state and local authorities raided the
    dispensary as part of a criminal investigation headed by the Southern
    Alameda County Crimes Task
    Force<http://www.newark.org/departments/police/support-services/special-enforcement-branch-set/task-force-units/>
    and state Department of Justice <http://oag.ca.gov/>.
     
    Five individuals associated with the collective are currently facing
    criminal charges<http://newark.patch.com/articles/pot-club-volunteers-only-facing-four-felony-charges>
    as
    a part of what state Department of Justice officials have called an illegal
    operation. All five pleaded not guilty to the
    charges<http://newark.patch.com/articles/pot-club-owners-plead-not-guilty-to-30-felony-charges>
    and
    are due back in court for a pre-trial hearing on Jan. 19.
     
    Attorneys representing NBD, have maintained that the dispensary was not
    operating illegally and is a nonprofit collective.
     
    Still, NBD’s presence put pressure on the City of Newark to re-evaluate its
    city ordinance that prohibited businesses and nonprofit organizations that
    are not compliant with state and federal law.
     
    As a result, Newark’s City Council passed city
    ordinances<http://newark.patch.com/articles/council-says-no-to-marijuana-clubs-in-newark>
    in
    October and November that prohibit the establishment and operation of
    medical marijuana dispensaries within city limits.
     
    That prohibition came after a second pot club known as the Happy Wellness
    Center<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Happy-Wellness-CenterNewark(phone#-removed)254>,
    opened in Newark. The collective, which still operates at 7200 Jarvis Ave.,
    opened on Aug. 31.
     
    Authorities raided the Happy Wellness
    Center<http://newark.patch.com/articles/police-serving-search-warrant-at-happy-wellness-center>,
    which operates under Alpha Rising, Inc., on Dec. 14 as part of the criminal
    investigation against the collective and its affiliates.
     
    More than $40,000, about 20 pounds of processed marijuana and firearms
    were seized
    during the multi-city
    raid<http://newark.patch.com/articles/authorities-seize-more-than-40-000-in-multi-city-police-raid>.
    A manager was also arrested but no charges have yet been filed, said
    Attorney Scot Candell, who represents Alpha Rising, Inc.
     
    Happy Wellness Center re-opened one week after the
    raids<http://newark.patch.com/articles/happy-wellness-marijuana-dispensary-re-opens>
    .
     
    Alpha Rising, Inc. is also involved in two civil litigations with the City
    of Newark.
     
    The City of Newark has sued Alpha Rising, Inc. in hopes to be granted a
    court-issued injunction that would authorize the closure of the collective.
    And Candell said the collective has sued the City of Newark because city
    officials denied the dispensary a business license in mid-August before it
    opened.
     
    "We're doing everything to be compliant with state and local laws,” Candell
    has said. "The city is not allowed under law to deny [Alpha Rising] a
    business license,” Candell said.
     
    Candell added Thursday afternoon that cannabis collectives are allowed to
    operate under state law.
     
    Attorneys have said that cannabis collectives are allowed to distribute
    medicinal marijuana underProposition
    215<http://vote96.sos.ca.gov/Vote96/html/BP/215text.htm>,
    known as the California Compassionate Use Act of 1996, and Senate Bill
    420<http://www.chrisconrad.com/expert.witness/sb420-03.htm#text>
    .
     
    *Green Cross Care Center, **34695 Alvarado-Niles Road, is open from 11 a.m.
    to 9 p.m. Monday through Saturday and 12 to 8 p.m. on Sundays.*

     

 

    "Dr. David Bearman" <s..s@a2c2.us> Jan 06 12:14AM -0500  

    If we lose this election,we will have largely ourselves to blame. We can certainly craft a winning initiative maybe more than one. Talk of the adverse affect of losing seems defeatist. What about the salutatory effect of winning. oh and when it comes to local initiatives it's not an either or proposition. Go ahead and have local initiatives on the ballot.
    peace
    David

     

    "Dr. David Bearman" <s..s@a2c2.us> Jan 05 11:58PM -0500  

    AS trhe Chinese say'A journey of a thousand milesw starts withg a single step." We are many miles down that journey and are making progress toward reaching our destination. Should an initiative pass this year it will bring us closer to our ultimate destibnation but as has been pointed out additional steps will be required to reach our final goal.
     

     

December 29, 2011 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 8 Messages in 4 Topics

 

    Joe Grumbine <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 09:00AM -0800  

    to those that have the opinion that their way is ok and others are not
    because of the current status of state law I only have these two words to
    say "Federal Law" it's kind of funny that when the feds come down on
    anyone, we all of a sudden get "religion" and understand why prohibition is
    so wrong.
    Lavonne, I only hope the feds don't get wind of your "association of
    patients" growing a plant considered illegal by your federal government.
     
    they won't understand any more than the judge in my court……..
     
    peace out
     
     
     

    Blessings
    Joe

     

    lavonne victor <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 12:30AM -0800  

    about who we are..or who i am..
    i have spoken many times about my opions and fears on this issue..
    and i must say.. that i am a patient…
     
    My husband and I .. in 2000 became patients of cannabis.. and we researched the laws at that time.. and stupidly called and asked the police how much we were able to grow .. needless to say.. we had no ideal about any groups or cannabis organizations out there. and we were on our own..
    and there are many out there even now whom are in the same boat as we once were.. but thanks to one group.. MAPP.. we met people in the movement whom were very supportive in a small amount of people..as well as Barbra Mckenzi from Shelter from the Storm out of San Diego,  for we faced the courts the same time we first grew.. for they came in and took all of our harvest plants away.. and arrested my husband.. and only one person with a few others shown up in support at that time…
    needless to say.. the story continues.. for after we have gotten through the ordeal and the stress along with the finacial issues behind this issue.. we were pissed.. for we have proven that we were trying to uphold the laws that were put forth on this issue.. and we were arrested…why..
    later after that we open up our 1/2 ace land and had others join us in our associated garden.. and we have had a great few years after 2003.. but until 2008.. the raid came again.. and our members whom had the card were not arrested but my husband was.. and due to his recomendation and card not being in our book he had to face the courts again.. and again we went thorugh the court system..and we were told by the Judge that we were trying to do our best to uphold the laws of the state concerning this issue.. and you know what.. not one organization , big organization like ASA came and supported us.. one person came from the human Solution whom was a member of our association and MAPP, Lanny Swerdlow whom supported us.. but since then we became a thorn in the cannabis movement due to our personal opions on certain initiatives that came out..
     
    I am a patient whom is trying to deal with keeping up with the issues concerning cannabis and the laws behind it.. I am not in the working community and have not been for over 11 years since my illness came about.. but.. i do benifit from the cannabis..
     
    Our association of pateints are those whom choose to be apart of us.. whom want to join us in growing in unity to obtain safe access to their cannabis.. for medical purposes for sure.. not just anyone off the street can just join in.. no can just anyone off the street can just obtain it.. when they first become a part of.. and had to wait for the harvest in order to receive.. and everyone participated within the group as well as out of pocket expense.. and received their equal share .. but now we are doing it diffrently but the same..
     
    We have gone through allot over the 11 years that we have been apart of this cannabis community.. and I had the pleasure of meeting so many people in this movement..
    But.. we all have diffrence of opions on this issue.. and to be kicked to the side of the street just because you disagree with some issues. are wrong..
     
    I am a woman in my middle 50"s and mostly home due to circumstance.. and i have spent 10 years in being an activist but now i am mostly staying home.. its hard for me to spend time at expo's , and travel .. its hard for me to go to parties, meeting, ect.. to me this issue of cannbis is for my health only.. not to just party and have a great time.. i am not in the fast lane of society but in the very slow lane of the disabled …
    Cannabis has been a big part of my life.. and my concern is that i do not want it to be taken away from me.. i can not afford to spend monies at the store.. the cost is too high for my income and most of my income takes care of putting a roof over my head and food in my families mouth.. so we grow our own.. and that is the way it is.. for us.. but there are many whom are unable to do what we are doing.. or have that property to keep it from the eye of the public, nor have the monies to keep it secured.. and it takes monies.. in order to do so.. but still.. cannabis is there for us and many.. and we are allow to grow our own, transport our own, and be reinbursed out of pocket expence… so.. what is this fuss about.. is it about getting more dispensaries up and running legally and also doing away with the patients grow for themselves.. if this is so. then i will not support the initiatives that come about unless we also are protected.. and still allow to
    continue to grow our own.. and if the store fronts are able to sell their products , like all small business owned by a home owner should also be able to sell their products as well.. why is it only good for big corporations only, and do away with the mom and pop …
    there are many farm owners whom grow fruit and vegitables and grapes that do sell , and many are small groups whom sell what they grow.. on a small scale.. why should we be any diffrent, if your going to go to a new way of doing things.. of course i am concern.. especially if this is going to take away from me and me obtaining my cannabis and not be able to grow my own,, or allow others in a small group of 20 to grow with us.. in unity.to fit our medical needs.. then this will be a problem.. and my vote do count .. .
     
    I am not going to waste my life around this issue.. for i really do not know how much life i have in me.. and in reality no one really dose know.. when their time is up .. but sick people , even by our government are being treated like we are just wasted space amonst the living.. as they continue to take our programs away from us.. well.. if store fronts only are allowed, and only big farmers only are allowed to provide these store fronts with cannabis product then you are taking our freedom away from us and forcing us to depend upon the store to obtain our cannabis and pay taxes on it also.. but to put a tax on a patient/ or citizen whom grows for themselves or a few others is wrong..
     
    i many not understand this initiative.. but i read it .. and i read it to try to understand what it really is about.. but my mind is simple now.. due to my illness.. and its hard for me sometimes to understand.. i am not afraid what those on this list may think of me.. on what i share.. but  i share honestly of my insite is of my surroundings.. and i am not active in the activism anymore, nor do i go to meetings anymore.. but i stay incontact by reading what is out there on many list. and its confusing not just to me but many others..
     
    I am a voter still .. and i stay up on this issue as much as my understanding would allow me to.. and my husband tries to explain to me over and over again.. but then its frustrating to him.. not that i blame him for my memory is out the window.. but what do you expect from someone that is working on dead braincells..lol.. anyway..
     
    i have to share.. i have to let you know from a patients view of this issue.. and how important it is for me to continue utalizing cannbis.. for medical purposes.. but over the years things have changed.. in my view.. things have changed more so than most would have it outside of the community of cannbis.. lets regulate, lets control, lets profittize off of the cannabis.. that is how i am seeing it.. now everyone has a way of getting a recomendation easily than before when i got one.. it was hard.. to get one.. but now days everyone is able to receive.. lolol
    Cannabis is now out there more so than ever.. in movies, in tv shows, in the news, now more so than ever.. cannabis has a voice.. and now we are going forward on trying to legalize cannbis.. for everyone to utalize.
     
    Most that i have read on this list .. some say that using the medical term behind cannabis is a mokery.. a smoke screen .. and most are not really sick.. but use it in order to obtain cannabis.. which is true. so.. there is a solution out there.. and the big people in the know.. is going toward that new path in the cannabis world.. but all i ask is that you do not take my freedome away from me.. to grow my own.. to help others obtain that also can not afford the high prices due to their income.. .. i utalize allot of cannbis for my illness and have been since i have been growing.. and it benifits me and keeps my illness somewhat under control and i do not have to take all those pharmacuticle drugs that kept me in the dark pit and i have lost years of reality behind that.. and personally i do not want to walk that road again.. for no one…
     
    I do not have monies to change the world, so to speak.. and no that many friends, due to me being homebound.. and i do have physical issus as well as mental issues.. and some people think i am really crazy at some times.. but what ever.. i am still a member of the cannabis movement, even if i am not part of it in form.. but i am in voice.. and i hope that more patients outside of the active part of the cannabis movement will come forth and voice their opions on this issue..
     
    i agree that providers for thousands of people should not go through the court system.. and many have gone through the front lines and paid a big price in doing so.. but how many more must be going through this and having their families torn apart due to this issue.. one case .. Joe Grumbine and Joe have been found guilty.. and i must agree with them on the part of how they were treated in the court room .. and it was terrible to say the least.. I met Joe and Liz and even spent time with them.. but still this is tearing his family apart behind this issue.. as well as others whom also are facing the courts due to them being providers.. we the members of the cannabis movement should have a choice.. to deceide if we want to go to a store front to obtain, for most they feel safer in doing so.. instead of having a delivery service or being apart of a group grow, due to circumstance.. to say the least..
     
    I am sorry that i am long winded on this .. i never intended to be.. but this is an important issue.. how can i vote to change what is.. if i do not completly understand it.. and i can not just vote yes to anything unless i understand how it is going to affect me and others in my shoes.. some are worse off then me.. more so. than i can imagine..
     
    My heart is with those whom are now spending time in jail , or having thier children being ripped from their arms and taken away to only what they understand.. , but lets not forget the ones that have gone and killed someone or a couple whom had cannabis.. lets not forget those take advantage.. crime is everywhere,,no matter what it may be.. a jewlery store, a bank, a fast food resturant.. ect.. that is the fact.. its not just the cannabis..
     
    For me.. its a medical issue.. that is important to me.. to others is non medical.. but i do know that more states are comming on board with the medical use of cannabis..
     
    I understand that the younger generation and even some of the older generation wants to have fun.. but really.. booze is legal, tobacco is legal, and they kill many citizens .. but cannabis is allot healthier.. so to say the least .. i am totally torn on this issue of legalization…
    i rather be able to grow it like i do my herbs and vegitables that i get from the store.. and not pay taxes.. just because i choose to grow ..or have to pay a high price just to be able to get permission to grow and have a home business.. .. a regular business never had to pay high just to be in business.. but with cannabis.. its a diffrent story.. now i feel you want to take my rights away from me.. and my freedom to grow my own…
     
    anyway.. that is my insite.. right, wrong, or indiffent.. this is my voice on this issue..
    anyway.. you all have a great New Year to come..
     
    ..
     
    La Vonne..
     
     
     
     
     
    s
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Thank you to those who have intro'ed  yourselves.
     
    If we were @ a convention meeting where we didn't know each other, say, we were all in a circle in a room, don't the rest of you feel like you'd offer your name & org connection? Or would you wear a mask & disguise your voice? Or offer your name but not share what org you were representing? Shouldn't we make the distinction between someone speaking for an org or for themselves? If I'm aware you are speaking for an org, I'm gonna listen differently which is not to say I don't hear an individual speaking for herself. If I see your .org suffix, shall I assume you are speaking for your group? If you don't have an .org suffix, is it safe to assume you are just speaking for yourself?
     
    This IS an open place and cause I wanna know who you are, where you are coming from & how you relate to this movement, so I can put my own thinking into YOUR words, doesn't make me feel like I'm prying or asking too much of you. Assume the cops know about each & every one of us anyway! What is there to hide?
     
    This is far from labeling, it is sharing with people with whom we have chosen to share concepts.
     
    And, we should not assume, except perhaps for a couple names, that everyone here is known to others.
     
    I offer these thoughts with love & peace & am motivated by a desire to keep moving this conversation forward.
     
    I stand for the legalization of marijuana and the accessibility of MM. I stand for community control, which is to say, CORPORATE NOT. I've almost fifty adult years of activism (yeah, I'm old!) including arrests & prison time as a GI during Vietnam and a pot felony conviction in this decade. I am a co-founder of Veteran's Speakers Alliance of the SF Bay Area, a chef & visual artist.
     
    We all have many, many common interests here and there is an incredible variety of strategies and tactics suggested in these conversations providing many directions for continued forward momentum. We don't have to agree on all of them but we must agree to be open and honest in our conversations.
     
    Thanks for listening. Have a wonderful warm & illuminating weekend.
     
    Peace,
     
     
    Hal Muskat
    Veterans For Peace
    "Sir, No Sir!"
     
    "I think because I can't code. I'm an artist because I can't think enough."
     
     
     
     
     
    On 12/23/11 8:56 AM, Letitia Pepper wrote:
     
     
     
     
          In response to Hal Muskat's relevant query about the background of people sending info in to "save cannabis" :
         I am an attorney, an activist and a patient. 
         I've been an attorney since 1982 when I passed the California bar. 
         I've been an activist since 1970 when I went to my first municipal land use-related meeting as a teenager with my mother and watched elected officials blatantly LIE to the audience in order to carry out their plan of developing, into a mall, one of the very rare California coastal wetlands near Carlsbad, California. 
          I've been a patient since 1993, when I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. 
          I've been a patient who uses cannabis as medicine since 2007, when I learned how cannabis helps people with so many different diseases and WHY it does.
          I've been a cannabis activist and anti-lying-to-patients activist since 2010, when, as an activist, I intended to work on Prop. 19 to "legalize marijuana!" and, having then actually READ the damned thing, realized it was all a trick to take away patients' good, existing rights under Prop. 215.
          And, while I was originally going to support and work to pass Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act 2012, after re-reading that initiative and thinking about it, I realized that I'd missed something very significant that it does almost as an after thought to "repealing prohibition": 

     

    "s..s@a2c2.us" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 08:24AM -0800  

    DMV,
     
    I stopped responding because you are a lost cause and an endless argument based in loose interpretation and semantic wordplay. That shit is tiring. For those of us who live here in earth, and who do not see everything fun and enjoyable as a medical procedure, we have real work to do. When you come back to reality maybe we can finish the conversation. No sense in arguing with the inherently lost and in denial.
     
    Be well…..Mickey
     
    Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
     
    —–Original message—–
    Sent: Sun, Dec 25, 2011 18:41:57 GMT+00:00
     
     
    > OK, then…
     
    > I'm not a bawling rambling drunk… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects
    > of alcohol for my social anxiety disorder.
     
    I'm not a chain smoker… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects of tobacco
    > for my unobstructed airway syndrome.
    > I'm not hyper… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects of coffee for my
    > lethargy.
     
    “No valid conclusion as to the use of a thing can be drawn from its abuse.”
    Ancient Latin maxim, Stockdale v. Hansard, Lord Denman
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    > You're confusing "whether it has medical effects" with "whether people are
    > using it medically".
     
    You are focusing on the abuse of drugs as an excuse to keep our community
    divided.
     
    I am focusing on the potential proper use of drugs as a method of keeping
    our community united.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    > While you may not see a difference, the public does.
     
    "*They who have put out the people's eyes, reproach them for their blindness
    *" – John Milton
     
     
     
     
     
     

     

    Russ Belville <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 27 12:14PM -0800  

    You know what doesn't serve the movement well? Organizing to defeat Prop
    19. Or giving aid and comfort to those who do.
     
    Russ Belville
    NORML Outreach Coordinator
     
    Social Networks: @RadicalRuss and @NORMLNet
    Shipping: 4110 SE Hawthorne Blvd. #161 – Portland, OR 97214
    Phone:(phone#-removed) – Fax:(phone#-removed)
     
    *Keep fighting only for medical marijuana and marijuana will become medical
    only.*
    *Hemp’s not illegal because marijuana is a drug; marijuana’s illegal
    because hemp is an oil.*
    *The most amazing thing about cannabis is its ability to addle the brains
    of those who do not use it.*
     
     
     
    On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 8:20 PM, William G. Panzer

     

    Sjss <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 28 12:18PM -0800  

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Respect is due equally.
     
    Sent from my iPhone
     

     

    Sjss <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 28 12:19PM -0800  

    Not saying I am
    Organizing or oppose rather that respect of each otter is a must.
     
    Sent from my iPhone
     

     

    Mickey Martin <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 27 07:27AM -0800  

    Word games never kept anyone out of jail
    Posted by Mickey Martin on December 27th, 2011
    Triple Word Score?
    So the debate rages on after Steve Deangelo dropped the “I do not believe in legalization of cannabis for recreational use” card on the final episode of Weed Wars. The Deangelo brothers have been called turncoats, hypocrites, and busters by America’s cannabis community for their inability to manage the message and willingness to throw the entire legalization effort out the window, in what one can only assume is an action of self-preservation under the attack of Federal pressure, and the pressure of being the new American TV sweetheart.
    So then Steve tried to walk back his (and his brother’s) disastrous statements in major media outlets by stating this:
    The term “recreational cannabis” was imposed from outside our movement. It’s time to define our own lexicon of cannabis. -Steve Deangelo
    Is that what the fuck you were doing? Maybe that is what you should have said. Instead of saying “I do not support legalization of cannabis for recreational use,” you should have said “I do not like the term recreational.” And when you say “our” who exactly are you talking about? If I were to define my own “lexicon” of cannabis it would not be intertwined with the medical industry. The term “medicine” carries too much baggage in our society to deem all cannabis use as such. You may not like the term “recreational,” but that is the common terminology being used to define non-medical cannabis use.
    So let us look at this evil word “recreation” that has been imposed upon us.
    rec·re·a·tion/ˌrekrēˈāSHən/ (noun)- Activity done for enjoyment when one is not working.
    Well I can see where your issue is. Your employees use cannabis for enjoyment WHILE working, so I can see why you do not like this terminology. I mean, when Terryn ate the edible in episode 4 while working he did not seem to be seeking health and wellness; nor when he sat there looking confused and messing up the ladies order did he seem well. He seemed confused and disoriented, while performing customer service…..so I can see how you think “recreational” does not fit because of the “not working” thing. But that does not seem to be the rub with you guys.
    Here is what Andrew Deangelo said in a tweet that further confuses the situation:
    Recreation is an activity, not a commodity. Try to ingest recreation, just try it. It cannot be done. -Andrew Deangelo
    So this is where you want to hang your hat on this debacle? On the term recreation? So you are saying that because one cannot ingest “recreation” that your statement against legalizing cannabis for recreational use is somehow more valid or less offensive? I do not think so….under the same premise you cannot “ingest” health and wellness either. Just try it. It cannot be done. It is a state or condition…not a commodity. So what was the point you were trying to make again?
    Word games never kept anyone out of jail. While you fuckers are over there dancing around the semantics of what is recreation and what is wellness, and if because recreation makes you feel well is it also medicinal and can we sell weed to anyone who wants to recreate because they are actually performing health and wellness activities?…blah, blah, blah. STFU! You cannot decide that you want to play word games in order to dance around the fact that you threw the entire legalization effort under the bus. America did not hear that you think recreational is a bad “lexicon.” What they heard is that you “do not support legalization.” That is it. You  see…you actually have to change the lexicon BEFORE shitting all over it. You have to make the distinction between your displeasure with the term recreational and your preference for health and wellness; and on top of that, you have to get people to buy into that. NEWSFLASH: People are not buying into
    it.
    Instead, you decided to shit on the term that most of America uses to describe non-medical and non-therapeutic uses of cannabis. The only impression that the public took away from the final message of your big show was “those guys do not support legalization.” They are not sitting there pondering your definition or disapproval of the word “recreational.” They heard the message….”DO NOT SUPPORT LEGALIZATION.” And that is a very dangerous message right now, as we inch closer and closer to that goal.
    Look….I prefer the term “adult enjoyable use”; others prefer “social use” or “personal use.” The fact is that it is okay to like those terms and use them, but realize that this is not the term most people use. Me and my wannabe hipster friends call cars “whips”; but if I call my mom and say “Hey ma…I got a new whip,” she would politely respond with “what is a whip?” Why? Because this is not the common terminology most understood by wide portions of our society. We use the term “car” because everyone understands that. The same way everyone understands “recreational vs. medical” uses of cannabis…..well, everyone but you guys apparently.
    You can continue to play the game of bullshit semantics if you like, but the fact is that you made a fatal error in your messaging. And instead of manning up and saying that you misspoke or were mistaken, you continue to take us on some unwanted field trip to the health and wellness factory that is Harborside’s dreamland. Instead of saying, “That is not what I meant,” you continue to try and convince us all that we are wrong and that your new found definition for being “whacked out on edibles” at a softball game is the right way to go. It just does not hold water and you guys should scrap the bullshit and stand up for what is right….legalization of cannabis for whatever fucking type of use you want…recreation, social, enjoyable, adult, health and wellness…whatever. We are grown ass people. We should not have to dance around some stupid word games to make people understand that legalizing cannabis is the right thing to do. You guys
    failed to bring that message. Your message instead was “Fuck legalization.” And that is what is so sad.
     
    Mickey Martin
    T-Comp Consulting Director
    www.cannabiswarrior.com
    www.tcompconsulting.com
    s..s@a2c2.us
    (phone#-removed)
    http://twitter.com/CANNABISconsult
     
     
    ***The views expressed in this communication are not necessarily the views of T-Comp Consulting, Tainted Compassion, West Coast Cannabis, Cannabis Warrior any other group I am affiliated with.***

     

December 29, 2011 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 8 Messages in 4 Topics

 

    Joe Grumbine <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 09:00AM -0800  

    to those that have the opinion that their way is ok and others are not
    because of the current status of state law I only have these two words to
    say "Federal Law" it's kind of funny that when the feds come down on
    anyone, we all of a sudden get "religion" and understand why prohibition is
    so wrong.
    Lavonne, I only hope the feds don't get wind of your "association of
    patients" growing a plant considered illegal by your federal government.
     
    they won't understand any more than the judge in my court……..
     
    peace out
     
     
     

    Blessings
    Joe

     

    lavonne victor <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 12:30AM -0800  

    about who we are..or who i am..
    i have spoken many times about my opions and fears on this issue..
    and i must say.. that i am a patient…
     
    My husband and I .. in 2000 became patients of cannabis.. and we researched the laws at that time.. and stupidly called and asked the police how much we were able to grow .. needless to say.. we had no ideal about any groups or cannabis organizations out there. and we were on our own..
    and there are many out there even now whom are in the same boat as we once were.. but thanks to one group.. MAPP.. we met people in the movement whom were very supportive in a small amount of people..as well as Barbra Mckenzi from Shelter from the Storm out of San Diego,  for we faced the courts the same time we first grew.. for they came in and took all of our harvest plants away.. and arrested my husband.. and only one person with a few others shown up in support at that time…
    needless to say.. the story continues.. for after we have gotten through the ordeal and the stress along with the finacial issues behind this issue.. we were pissed.. for we have proven that we were trying to uphold the laws that were put forth on this issue.. and we were arrested…why..
    later after that we open up our 1/2 ace land and had others join us in our associated garden.. and we have had a great few years after 2003.. but until 2008.. the raid came again.. and our members whom had the card were not arrested but my husband was.. and due to his recomendation and card not being in our book he had to face the courts again.. and again we went thorugh the court system..and we were told by the Judge that we were trying to do our best to uphold the laws of the state concerning this issue.. and you know what.. not one organization , big organization like ASA came and supported us.. one person came from the human Solution whom was a member of our association and MAPP, Lanny Swerdlow whom supported us.. but since then we became a thorn in the cannabis movement due to our personal opions on certain initiatives that came out..
     
    I am a patient whom is trying to deal with keeping up with the issues concerning cannabis and the laws behind it.. I am not in the working community and have not been for over 11 years since my illness came about.. but.. i do benifit from the cannabis..
     
    Our association of pateints are those whom choose to be apart of us.. whom want to join us in growing in unity to obtain safe access to their cannabis.. for medical purposes for sure.. not just anyone off the street can just join in.. no can just anyone off the street can just obtain it.. when they first become a part of.. and had to wait for the harvest in order to receive.. and everyone participated within the group as well as out of pocket expense.. and received their equal share .. but now we are doing it diffrently but the same..
     
    We have gone through allot over the 11 years that we have been apart of this cannabis community.. and I had the pleasure of meeting so many people in this movement..
    But.. we all have diffrence of opions on this issue.. and to be kicked to the side of the street just because you disagree with some issues. are wrong..
     
    I am a woman in my middle 50"s and mostly home due to circumstance.. and i have spent 10 years in being an activist but now i am mostly staying home.. its hard for me to spend time at expo's , and travel .. its hard for me to go to parties, meeting, ect.. to me this issue of cannbis is for my health only.. not to just party and have a great time.. i am not in the fast lane of society but in the very slow lane of the disabled …
    Cannabis has been a big part of my life.. and my concern is that i do not want it to be taken away from me.. i can not afford to spend monies at the store.. the cost is too high for my income and most of my income takes care of putting a roof over my head and food in my families mouth.. so we grow our own.. and that is the way it is.. for us.. but there are many whom are unable to do what we are doing.. or have that property to keep it from the eye of the public, nor have the monies to keep it secured.. and it takes monies.. in order to do so.. but still.. cannabis is there for us and many.. and we are allow to grow our own, transport our own, and be reinbursed out of pocket expence… so.. what is this fuss about.. is it about getting more dispensaries up and running legally and also doing away with the patients grow for themselves.. if this is so. then i will not support the initiatives that come about unless we also are protected.. and still allow to
    continue to grow our own.. and if the store fronts are able to sell their products , like all small business owned by a home owner should also be able to sell their products as well.. why is it only good for big corporations only, and do away with the mom and pop …
    there are many farm owners whom grow fruit and vegitables and grapes that do sell , and many are small groups whom sell what they grow.. on a small scale.. why should we be any diffrent, if your going to go to a new way of doing things.. of course i am concern.. especially if this is going to take away from me and me obtaining my cannabis and not be able to grow my own,, or allow others in a small group of 20 to grow with us.. in unity.to fit our medical needs.. then this will be a problem.. and my vote do count .. .
     
    I am not going to waste my life around this issue.. for i really do not know how much life i have in me.. and in reality no one really dose know.. when their time is up .. but sick people , even by our government are being treated like we are just wasted space amonst the living.. as they continue to take our programs away from us.. well.. if store fronts only are allowed, and only big farmers only are allowed to provide these store fronts with cannabis product then you are taking our freedom away from us and forcing us to depend upon the store to obtain our cannabis and pay taxes on it also.. but to put a tax on a patient/ or citizen whom grows for themselves or a few others is wrong..
     
    i many not understand this initiative.. but i read it .. and i read it to try to understand what it really is about.. but my mind is simple now.. due to my illness.. and its hard for me sometimes to understand.. i am not afraid what those on this list may think of me.. on what i share.. but  i share honestly of my insite is of my surroundings.. and i am not active in the activism anymore, nor do i go to meetings anymore.. but i stay incontact by reading what is out there on many list. and its confusing not just to me but many others..
     
    I am a voter still .. and i stay up on this issue as much as my understanding would allow me to.. and my husband tries to explain to me over and over again.. but then its frustrating to him.. not that i blame him for my memory is out the window.. but what do you expect from someone that is working on dead braincells..lol.. anyway..
     
    i have to share.. i have to let you know from a patients view of this issue.. and how important it is for me to continue utalizing cannbis.. for medical purposes.. but over the years things have changed.. in my view.. things have changed more so than most would have it outside of the community of cannbis.. lets regulate, lets control, lets profittize off of the cannabis.. that is how i am seeing it.. now everyone has a way of getting a recomendation easily than before when i got one.. it was hard.. to get one.. but now days everyone is able to receive.. lolol
    Cannabis is now out there more so than ever.. in movies, in tv shows, in the news, now more so than ever.. cannabis has a voice.. and now we are going forward on trying to legalize cannbis.. for everyone to utalize.
     
    Most that i have read on this list .. some say that using the medical term behind cannabis is a mokery.. a smoke screen .. and most are not really sick.. but use it in order to obtain cannabis.. which is true. so.. there is a solution out there.. and the big people in the know.. is going toward that new path in the cannabis world.. but all i ask is that you do not take my freedome away from me.. to grow my own.. to help others obtain that also can not afford the high prices due to their income.. .. i utalize allot of cannbis for my illness and have been since i have been growing.. and it benifits me and keeps my illness somewhat under control and i do not have to take all those pharmacuticle drugs that kept me in the dark pit and i have lost years of reality behind that.. and personally i do not want to walk that road again.. for no one…
     
    I do not have monies to change the world, so to speak.. and no that many friends, due to me being homebound.. and i do have physical issus as well as mental issues.. and some people think i am really crazy at some times.. but what ever.. i am still a member of the cannabis movement, even if i am not part of it in form.. but i am in voice.. and i hope that more patients outside of the active part of the cannabis movement will come forth and voice their opions on this issue..
     
    i agree that providers for thousands of people should not go through the court system.. and many have gone through the front lines and paid a big price in doing so.. but how many more must be going through this and having their families torn apart due to this issue.. one case .. Joe Grumbine and Joe have been found guilty.. and i must agree with them on the part of how they were treated in the court room .. and it was terrible to say the least.. I met Joe and Liz and even spent time with them.. but still this is tearing his family apart behind this issue.. as well as others whom also are facing the courts due to them being providers.. we the members of the cannabis movement should have a choice.. to deceide if we want to go to a store front to obtain, for most they feel safer in doing so.. instead of having a delivery service or being apart of a group grow, due to circumstance.. to say the least..
     
    I am sorry that i am long winded on this .. i never intended to be.. but this is an important issue.. how can i vote to change what is.. if i do not completly understand it.. and i can not just vote yes to anything unless i understand how it is going to affect me and others in my shoes.. some are worse off then me.. more so. than i can imagine..
     
    My heart is with those whom are now spending time in jail , or having thier children being ripped from their arms and taken away to only what they understand.. , but lets not forget the ones that have gone and killed someone or a couple whom had cannabis.. lets not forget those take advantage.. crime is everywhere,,no matter what it may be.. a jewlery store, a bank, a fast food resturant.. ect.. that is the fact.. its not just the cannabis..
     
    For me.. its a medical issue.. that is important to me.. to others is non medical.. but i do know that more states are comming on board with the medical use of cannabis..
     
    I understand that the younger generation and even some of the older generation wants to have fun.. but really.. booze is legal, tobacco is legal, and they kill many citizens .. but cannabis is allot healthier.. so to say the least .. i am totally torn on this issue of legalization…
    i rather be able to grow it like i do my herbs and vegitables that i get from the store.. and not pay taxes.. just because i choose to grow ..or have to pay a high price just to be able to get permission to grow and have a home business.. .. a regular business never had to pay high just to be in business.. but with cannabis.. its a diffrent story.. now i feel you want to take my rights away from me.. and my freedom to grow my own…
     
    anyway.. that is my insite.. right, wrong, or indiffent.. this is my voice on this issue..
    anyway.. you all have a great New Year to come..
     
    ..
     
    La Vonne..
     
     
     
     
     
    s
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Thank you to those who have intro'ed  yourselves.
     
    If we were @ a convention meeting where we didn't know each other, say, we were all in a circle in a room, don't the rest of you feel like you'd offer your name & org connection? Or would you wear a mask & disguise your voice? Or offer your name but not share what org you were representing? Shouldn't we make the distinction between someone speaking for an org or for themselves? If I'm aware you are speaking for an org, I'm gonna listen differently which is not to say I don't hear an individual speaking for herself. If I see your .org suffix, shall I assume you are speaking for your group? If you don't have an .org suffix, is it safe to assume you are just speaking for yourself?
     
    This IS an open place and cause I wanna know who you are, where you are coming from & how you relate to this movement, so I can put my own thinking into YOUR words, doesn't make me feel like I'm prying or asking too much of you. Assume the cops know about each & every one of us anyway! What is there to hide?
     
    This is far from labeling, it is sharing with people with whom we have chosen to share concepts.
     
    And, we should not assume, except perhaps for a couple names, that everyone here is known to others.
     
    I offer these thoughts with love & peace & am motivated by a desire to keep moving this conversation forward.
     
    I stand for the legalization of marijuana and the accessibility of MM. I stand for community control, which is to say, CORPORATE NOT. I've almost fifty adult years of activism (yeah, I'm old!) including arrests & prison time as a GI during Vietnam and a pot felony conviction in this decade. I am a co-founder of Veteran's Speakers Alliance of the SF Bay Area, a chef & visual artist.
     
    We all have many, many common interests here and there is an incredible variety of strategies and tactics suggested in these conversations providing many directions for continued forward momentum. We don't have to agree on all of them but we must agree to be open and honest in our conversations.
     
    Thanks for listening. Have a wonderful warm & illuminating weekend.
     
    Peace,
     
     
    Hal Muskat
    Veterans For Peace
    "Sir, No Sir!"
     
    "I think because I can't code. I'm an artist because I can't think enough."
     
     
     
     
     
    On 12/23/11 8:56 AM, Letitia Pepper wrote:
     
     
     
     
          In response to Hal Muskat's relevant query about the background of people sending info in to "save cannabis" :
         I am an attorney, an activist and a patient. 
         I've been an attorney since 1982 when I passed the California bar. 
         I've been an activist since 1970 when I went to my first municipal land use-related meeting as a teenager with my mother and watched elected officials blatantly LIE to the audience in order to carry out their plan of developing, into a mall, one of the very rare California coastal wetlands near Carlsbad, California. 
          I've been a patient since 1993, when I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. 
          I've been a patient who uses cannabis as medicine since 2007, when I learned how cannabis helps people with so many different diseases and WHY it does.
          I've been a cannabis activist and anti-lying-to-patients activist since 2010, when, as an activist, I intended to work on Prop. 19 to "legalize marijuana!" and, having then actually READ the damned thing, realized it was all a trick to take away patients' good, existing rights under Prop. 215.
          And, while I was originally going to support and work to pass Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act 2012, after re-reading that initiative and thinking about it, I realized that I'd missed something very significant that it does almost as an after thought to "repealing prohibition": 

     

    "s..s@a2c2.us" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 08:24AM -0800  

    DMV,
     
    I stopped responding because you are a lost cause and an endless argument based in loose interpretation and semantic wordplay. That shit is tiring. For those of us who live here in earth, and who do not see everything fun and enjoyable as a medical procedure, we have real work to do. When you come back to reality maybe we can finish the conversation. No sense in arguing with the inherently lost and in denial.
     
    Be well…..Mickey
     
    Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
     
    —–Original message—–
    Sent: Sun, Dec 25, 2011 18:41:57 GMT+00:00
     
     
    > OK, then…
     
    > I'm not a bawling rambling drunk… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects
    > of alcohol for my social anxiety disorder.
     
    I'm not a chain smoker… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects of tobacco
    > for my unobstructed airway syndrome.
    > I'm not hyper… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects of coffee for my
    > lethargy.
     
    “No valid conclusion as to the use of a thing can be drawn from its abuse.”
    Ancient Latin maxim, Stockdale v. Hansard, Lord Denman
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    > You're confusing "whether it has medical effects" with "whether people are
    > using it medically".
     
    You are focusing on the abuse of drugs as an excuse to keep our community
    divided.
     
    I am focusing on the potential proper use of drugs as a method of keeping
    our community united.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    > While you may not see a difference, the public does.
     
    "*They who have put out the people's eyes, reproach them for their blindness
    *" – John Milton
     
     
     
     
     
     

     

    Russ Belville <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 27 12:14PM -0800  

    You know what doesn't serve the movement well? Organizing to defeat Prop
    19. Or giving aid and comfort to those who do.
     
    Russ Belville
    NORML Outreach Coordinator
     
    Social Networks: @RadicalRuss and @NORMLNet
    Shipping: 4110 SE Hawthorne Blvd. #161 – Portland, OR 97214
    Phone:(phone#-removed) – Fax:(phone#-removed)
     
    *Keep fighting only for medical marijuana and marijuana will become medical
    only.*
    *Hemp’s not illegal because marijuana is a drug; marijuana’s illegal
    because hemp is an oil.*
    *The most amazing thing about cannabis is its ability to addle the brains
    of those who do not use it.*
     
     
     
    On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 8:20 PM, William G. Panzer

     

    Sjss <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 28 12:18PM -0800  

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Respect is due equally.
     
    Sent from my iPhone
     

     

    Sjss <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 28 12:19PM -0800  

    Not saying I am
    Organizing or oppose rather that respect of each otter is a must.
     
    Sent from my iPhone
     

     

    Mickey Martin <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 27 07:27AM -0800  

    Word games never kept anyone out of jail
    Posted by Mickey Martin on December 27th, 2011
    Triple Word Score?
    So the debate rages on after Steve Deangelo dropped the “I do not believe in legalization of cannabis for recreational use” card on the final episode of Weed Wars. The Deangelo brothers have been called turncoats, hypocrites, and busters by America’s cannabis community for their inability to manage the message and willingness to throw the entire legalization effort out the window, in what one can only assume is an action of self-preservation under the attack of Federal pressure, and the pressure of being the new American TV sweetheart.
    So then Steve tried to walk back his (and his brother’s) disastrous statements in major media outlets by stating this:
    The term “recreational cannabis” was imposed from outside our movement. It’s time to define our own lexicon of cannabis. -Steve Deangelo
    Is that what the fuck you were doing? Maybe that is what you should have said. Instead of saying “I do not support legalization of cannabis for recreational use,” you should have said “I do not like the term recreational.” And when you say “our” who exactly are you talking about? If I were to define my own “lexicon” of cannabis it would not be intertwined with the medical industry. The term “medicine” carries too much baggage in our society to deem all cannabis use as such. You may not like the term “recreational,” but that is the common terminology being used to define non-medical cannabis use.
    So let us look at this evil word “recreation” that has been imposed upon us.
    rec·re·a·tion/ˌrekrēˈāSHən/ (noun)- Activity done for enjoyment when one is not working.
    Well I can see where your issue is. Your employees use cannabis for enjoyment WHILE working, so I can see why you do not like this terminology. I mean, when Terryn ate the edible in episode 4 while working he did not seem to be seeking health and wellness; nor when he sat there looking confused and messing up the ladies order did he seem well. He seemed confused and disoriented, while performing customer service…..so I can see how you think “recreational” does not fit because of the “not working” thing. But that does not seem to be the rub with you guys.
    Here is what Andrew Deangelo said in a tweet that further confuses the situation:
    Recreation is an activity, not a commodity. Try to ingest recreation, just try it. It cannot be done. -Andrew Deangelo
    So this is where you want to hang your hat on this debacle? On the term recreation? So you are saying that because one cannot ingest “recreation” that your statement against legalizing cannabis for recreational use is somehow more valid or less offensive? I do not think so….under the same premise you cannot “ingest” health and wellness either. Just try it. It cannot be done. It is a state or condition…not a commodity. So what was the point you were trying to make again?
    Word games never kept anyone out of jail. While you fuckers are over there dancing around the semantics of what is recreation and what is wellness, and if because recreation makes you feel well is it also medicinal and can we sell weed to anyone who wants to recreate because they are actually performing health and wellness activities?…blah, blah, blah. STFU! You cannot decide that you want to play word games in order to dance around the fact that you threw the entire legalization effort under the bus. America did not hear that you think recreational is a bad “lexicon.” What they heard is that you “do not support legalization.” That is it. You  see…you actually have to change the lexicon BEFORE shitting all over it. You have to make the distinction between your displeasure with the term recreational and your preference for health and wellness; and on top of that, you have to get people to buy into that. NEWSFLASH: People are not buying into
    it.
    Instead, you decided to shit on the term that most of America uses to describe non-medical and non-therapeutic uses of cannabis. The only impression that the public took away from the final message of your big show was “those guys do not support legalization.” They are not sitting there pondering your definition or disapproval of the word “recreational.” They heard the message….”DO NOT SUPPORT LEGALIZATION.” And that is a very dangerous message right now, as we inch closer and closer to that goal.
    Look….I prefer the term “adult enjoyable use”; others prefer “social use” or “personal use.” The fact is that it is okay to like those terms and use them, but realize that this is not the term most people use. Me and my wannabe hipster friends call cars “whips”; but if I call my mom and say “Hey ma…I got a new whip,” she would politely respond with “what is a whip?” Why? Because this is not the common terminology most understood by wide portions of our society. We use the term “car” because everyone understands that. The same way everyone understands “recreational vs. medical” uses of cannabis…..well, everyone but you guys apparently.
    You can continue to play the game of bullshit semantics if you like, but the fact is that you made a fatal error in your messaging. And instead of manning up and saying that you misspoke or were mistaken, you continue to take us on some unwanted field trip to the health and wellness factory that is Harborside’s dreamland. Instead of saying, “That is not what I meant,” you continue to try and convince us all that we are wrong and that your new found definition for being “whacked out on edibles” at a softball game is the right way to go. It just does not hold water and you guys should scrap the bullshit and stand up for what is right….legalization of cannabis for whatever fucking type of use you want…recreation, social, enjoyable, adult, health and wellness…whatever. We are grown ass people. We should not have to dance around some stupid word games to make people understand that legalizing cannabis is the right thing to do. You guys
    failed to bring that message. Your message instead was “Fuck legalization.” And that is what is so sad.
     
    Mickey Martin
    T-Comp Consulting Director
    www.cannabiswarrior.com
    www.tcompconsulting.com
    s..s@a2c2.us
    (phone#-removed)
    http://twitter.com/CANNABISconsult
     
     
    ***The views expressed in this communication are not necessarily the views of T-Comp Consulting, Tainted Compassion, West Coast Cannabis, Cannabis Warrior any other group I am affiliated with.***

     

December 27, 2011 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 4 Messages in 4 Topics

    Dennis Hinze <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 09:02AM -0800  

     Hi Save Cannabis people,
      My name is Dennis Hinze. I live in the high desert of northern California. A medical marijuana patient, I grow my own to treat migraine, tobacco addiction, alcoholism, and chronic pain from sciatica, scoliosis and arthritis. I concur that all use is not medical, but also perceive that many people who smoke to get high are actually medicating themselves. I have been actively writing letters and essays opposing the drug war to elected and appointed officials and other interested parties since George H. W. Bush became president. If anyone can remember back to that time, the senior Bush was quoted in national press, promoting a shift in priorities on the drug war that would usher in a new era of treatment and therapy to replace the failed tactical war of intervention and prosecution. Needless to say, this concept got little play in the press, and within two weeks, like many good ideas in D.C., it was virtually dead.
      However, this concept lives on with me and other individuals who see that treatment and therapy is the best way to go. Also, the very idea of a police state which supports the drug war brand of discriminatory prosecution, is losing traction with the people. The "occupy" movement, which is ostensibly about the discrepancy in incomes and the greedy one percent, is evoking a reality-based, prime time exposee of our police state in action; tactical, armed support of big business and intrusive governments. The big businesses, of course, include big pharma, tobacco and alcohol producers and distributors, and HMOs. All of these vested interests are down on any illegal drugs, especially pot, and support their continued illegal status. Now, however, recently, the AMA has come around to accept pot as medicine, and the Veteran's Administration has appealed to FDA to allow studies on pot use to treat PTSD. These improvements are coming about through upward
    pressure from the people, patients whose improvement confims the value of this cannabis medicine, veterans who find that smoking pot eases the PTSD.
      Now, in the wake of federal crackdowns in California, and the promise to soon invade Colorado, it looks like time is ripe to call bullshit on the upper one percent who have been getting away with murder and worse for the past 50 years or so. If you live in a city, you have four governments to serve you. Unfortunately, their mandate to serve and protect is being usurped by the attitude of regulation and control. At all levels, federal, state, county and city, the policy makers usher in new laws, codes, statutes and ordinances until it is virtually impossible to live in compliance. This BS must cease. It is through we the people that this will be accomplished. How will we do it? Well, look at "occupy", and this is a way to go. It is working pretty well in the rest of the world.
      Pot is panacea for poor people. We must continue to grow our medicinal marijuana, and support total legalization of marijuana.
      The "War on Drugs" is a misguided effort by ignorant individuals who are in denial of their own humanity. This war on the people has no place in a free society. The coming year will show whether or not this is a nation of sheep. I think that we the people will come out on top in this fray.
      Keep the faith,
        Dennis Hinze     PO Box 9, Doyle, CA, 96109         message:  (phone#-removed)         *_*
     PS: Who I am, is I am working on these drug problems from the bottom up, and will continue to do so. I also support a concept of forest management which is designed to produce beautiful, sustainable forests by removing excess biomass. Also support the concept of renewable wind energy; see: www.YouTube.com/dennisdavidhinze    I am also director of Survival Workshop which can be found at www.survivalworkshop.com

     

    "William G. Panzer" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 25 08:31PM -0800  

    In fact, any cannabis case that is pending at the time RMLW or ANY
    intitiative changing the law passes receives the benefit of the new
    law. This is the holding in one of the first landmark medical cannabis
    cases, "People v. Trippet".
     
    Bill Panzer
     
     
    On 12/23/2011 9:44 PM, Steve Kubby wrote:

     

    "William G. Panzer" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 25 08:20PM -0800  

    Russ, you wrote:
    > Every NORML activist I meet has worked tirelessly for medical
    > marijuana and even defended some of the gray area activities of the
    > medicalizers….
     
    That doesn't jibe with recent statements made by representatives of
    National NORML. In fact, Allen's opening remarks at the recent Key West
    NLC Seminar included noting that the big problem with Weed Wars was that
    it was shot in California instead of in Colorado (at which point I
    walked out). While I love them, Keith & Allen have been taking "pot"
    shots at California with some regularity. IMHO it does not serve the
    movement well.
     
    Bill Panzer

     

    LANNYSWERDLOW <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 25 05:54PM -0800  

    Lee and Grumbine may sound like the name of an insurance agency, but in this case these two names make for a dynamic Monday, Dec. 26 broadcast and simulcast of the award winning show Marijuana Compassion and Common Sense.
     
    Richard Lee, operator of Oakland's legendary Bulldog Collective, founder of the ground-breaking Oaksterdam University and chief proponent of California's Prop. 19 is our first featured guest. The initiative he promoted received 46.5% of the vote in California which is the largest percentage of yes votes ever received by a statewide legalization measure.
     
    Richard Lee, operator of Oakland's legendary Bulldog Collective, founder of the ground-breaking Oaksterdam University and chief proponent of California's Prop. 19, is our first featured guest this Monday.
     
    Even though Prop. 19 didn't pass (came awfully close at 46.5%), it's almost passed performance has rekindled the drive to legalize marijuana as can be seen by measures being circulated in Colorado, Washington, California and Missouri. It brought the debate back into the national radar screen and has inspired legalization advocates across the nation.
     
    Discussing Prop. 19 and its aftermath, bringing us to date on what is going on with his collective in Oakland which was targeted by the Feds for closure and touching on a few other subjects as well, Richard will provide his seasoned and reasoned outlook for the future of the marijuana movement and maybe even let us on in what he plans to be doing.
     
    Our second featured guest is Joe Grumbine who operated a medical marijuana collective in Garden Grove that was raided. Charges were filed against him and his partner Joe Byron, for sales, cultivation and a laundry list of other criminal statutes. Both Joes were found guilty on all charges.
     
    In what can only be described as a Kangaroo Court that tried to prevent their attorneys from presenting a medical marijuana defense. After being overruled by the 2 nd District Court, the Judge had to allow a mmj defense, but he conducted the trial in such a biased and prejudicial way, that appeals of the conviction are being sought.
     
    Joe will discuss what happened, why it happened and what avenues they are pursuing to appeal the courtroom antics of the presiding judge. It is a cautionary tale that justice for medical marijuana providers can be elusive.
     
    Join Uncle Ronnie, Kali Smith and myself this Monday at 6 pm and every Monday at 6 pm for Marijuana Compassion and Common Sense broadcast on KCAA 1050AM and simulcast at www.kcaaradio.com.

     

December 27, 2011 – Digest for s..s@a2c2.us – 4 Messages in 4 Topics

    Dennis Hinze <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 26 09:02AM -0800  

     Hi Save Cannabis people,
      My name is Dennis Hinze. I live in the high desert of northern California. A medical marijuana patient, I grow my own to treat migraine, tobacco addiction, alcoholism, and chronic pain from sciatica, scoliosis and arthritis. I concur that all use is not medical, but also perceive that many people who smoke to get high are actually medicating themselves. I have been actively writing letters and essays opposing the drug war to elected and appointed officials and other interested parties since George H. W. Bush became president. If anyone can remember back to that time, the senior Bush was quoted in national press, promoting a shift in priorities on the drug war that would usher in a new era of treatment and therapy to replace the failed tactical war of intervention and prosecution. Needless to say, this concept got little play in the press, and within two weeks, like many good ideas in D.C., it was virtually dead.
      However, this concept lives on with me and other individuals who see that treatment and therapy is the best way to go. Also, the very idea of a police state which supports the drug war brand of discriminatory prosecution, is losing traction with the people. The "occupy" movement, which is ostensibly about the discrepancy in incomes and the greedy one percent, is evoking a reality-based, prime time exposee of our police state in action; tactical, armed support of big business and intrusive governments. The big businesses, of course, include big pharma, tobacco and alcohol producers and distributors, and HMOs. All of these vested interests are down on any illegal drugs, especially pot, and support their continued illegal status. Now, however, recently, the AMA has come around to accept pot as medicine, and the Veteran's Administration has appealed to FDA to allow studies on pot use to treat PTSD. These improvements are coming about through upward
    pressure from the people, patients whose improvement confims the value of this cannabis medicine, veterans who find that smoking pot eases the PTSD.
      Now, in the wake of federal crackdowns in California, and the promise to soon invade Colorado, it looks like time is ripe to call bullshit on the upper one percent who have been getting away with murder and worse for the past 50 years or so. If you live in a city, you have four governments to serve you. Unfortunately, their mandate to serve and protect is being usurped by the attitude of regulation and control. At all levels, federal, state, county and city, the policy makers usher in new laws, codes, statutes and ordinances until it is virtually impossible to live in compliance. This BS must cease. It is through we the people that this will be accomplished. How will we do it? Well, look at "occupy", and this is a way to go. It is working pretty well in the rest of the world.
      Pot is panacea for poor people. We must continue to grow our medicinal marijuana, and support total legalization of marijuana.
      The "War on Drugs" is a misguided effort by ignorant individuals who are in denial of their own humanity. This war on the people has no place in a free society. The coming year will show whether or not this is a nation of sheep. I think that we the people will come out on top in this fray.
      Keep the faith,
        Dennis Hinze     PO Box 9, Doyle, CA, 96109         message:  (phone#-removed)         *_*
     PS: Who I am, is I am working on these drug problems from the bottom up, and will continue to do so. I also support a concept of forest management which is designed to produce beautiful, sustainable forests by removing excess biomass. Also support the concept of renewable wind energy; see: www.YouTube.com/dennisdavidhinze    I am also director of Survival Workshop which can be found at www.survivalworkshop.com

     

    "William G. Panzer" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 25 08:31PM -0800  

    In fact, any cannabis case that is pending at the time RMLW or ANY
    intitiative changing the law passes receives the benefit of the new
    law. This is the holding in one of the first landmark medical cannabis
    cases, "People v. Trippet".
     
    Bill Panzer
     
     
    On 12/23/2011 9:44 PM, Steve Kubby wrote:

     

    "William G. Panzer" <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 25 08:20PM -0800  

    Russ, you wrote:
    > Every NORML activist I meet has worked tirelessly for medical
    > marijuana and even defended some of the gray area activities of the
    > medicalizers….
     
    That doesn't jibe with recent statements made by representatives of
    National NORML. In fact, Allen's opening remarks at the recent Key West
    NLC Seminar included noting that the big problem with Weed Wars was that
    it was shot in California instead of in Colorado (at which point I
    walked out). While I love them, Keith & Allen have been taking "pot"
    shots at California with some regularity. IMHO it does not serve the
    movement well.
     
    Bill Panzer

     

    LANNYSWERDLOW <s..s@a2c2.us> Dec 25 05:54PM -0800  

    Lee and Grumbine may sound like the name of an insurance agency, but in this case these two names make for a dynamic Monday, Dec. 26 broadcast and simulcast of the award winning show Marijuana Compassion and Common Sense.
     
    Richard Lee, operator of Oakland's legendary Bulldog Collective, founder of the ground-breaking Oaksterdam University and chief proponent of California's Prop. 19 is our first featured guest. The initiative he promoted received 46.5% of the vote in California which is the largest percentage of yes votes ever received by a statewide legalization measure.
     
    Richard Lee, operator of Oakland's legendary Bulldog Collective, founder of the ground-breaking Oaksterdam University and chief proponent of California's Prop. 19, is our first featured guest this Monday.
     
    Even though Prop. 19 didn't pass (came awfully close at 46.5%), it's almost passed performance has rekindled the drive to legalize marijuana as can be seen by measures being circulated in Colorado, Washington, California and Missouri. It brought the debate back into the national radar screen and has inspired legalization advocates across the nation.
     
    Discussing Prop. 19 and its aftermath, bringing us to date on what is going on with his collective in Oakland which was targeted by the Feds for closure and touching on a few other subjects as well, Richard will provide his seasoned and reasoned outlook for the future of the marijuana movement and maybe even let us on in what he plans to be doing.
     
    Our second featured guest is Joe Grumbine who operated a medical marijuana collective in Garden Grove that was raided. Charges were filed against him and his partner Joe Byron, for sales, cultivation and a laundry list of other criminal statutes. Both Joes were found guilty on all charges.
     
    In what can only be described as a Kangaroo Court that tried to prevent their attorneys from presenting a medical marijuana defense. After being overruled by the 2 nd District Court, the Judge had to allow a mmj defense, but he conducted the trial in such a biased and prejudicial way, that appeals of the conviction are being sought.
     
    Joe will discuss what happened, why it happened and what avenues they are pursuing to appeal the courtroom antics of the presiding judge. It is a cautionary tale that justice for medical marijuana providers can be elusive.
     
    Join Uncle Ronnie, Kali Smith and myself this Monday at 6 pm and every Monday at 6 pm for Marijuana Compassion and Common Sense broadcast on KCAA 1050AM and simulcast at www.kcaaradio.com.