Joe Grumbine <s..email@example.com> Dec 26 09:00AM -0800
to those that have the opinion that their way is ok and others are not
because of the current status of state law I only have these two words to
say "Federal Law" it's kind of funny that when the feds come down on
anyone, we all of a sudden get "religion" and understand why prohibition is
Lavonne, I only hope the feds don't get wind of your "association of
patients" growing a plant considered illegal by your federal government.
they won't understand any more than the judge in my court……..
lavonne victor <s..firstname.lastname@example.org> Dec 26 12:30AM -0800
about who we are..or who i am..
i have spoken many times about my opions and fears on this issue..
and i must say.. that i am a patient…
My husband and I .. in 2000 became patients of cannabis.. and we researched the laws at that time.. and stupidly called and asked the police how much we were able to grow .. needless to say.. we had no ideal about any groups or cannabis organizations out there. and we were on our own..
and there are many out there even now whom are in the same boat as we once were.. but thanks to one group.. MAPP.. we met people in the movement whom were very supportive in a small amount of people..as well as Barbra Mckenzi from Shelter from the Storm out of San Diego, for we faced the courts the same time we first grew.. for they came in and took all of our harvest plants away.. and arrested my husband.. and only one person with a few others shown up in support at that time…
needless to say.. the story continues.. for after we have gotten through the ordeal and the stress along with the finacial issues behind this issue.. we were pissed.. for we have proven that we were trying to uphold the laws that were put forth on this issue.. and we were arrested…why..
later after that we open up our 1/2 ace land and had others join us in our associated garden.. and we have had a great few years after 2003.. but until 2008.. the raid came again.. and our members whom had the card were not arrested but my husband was.. and due to his recomendation and card not being in our book he had to face the courts again.. and again we went thorugh the court system..and we were told by the Judge that we were trying to do our best to uphold the laws of the state concerning this issue.. and you know what.. not one organization , big organization like ASA came and supported us.. one person came from the human Solution whom was a member of our association and MAPP, Lanny Swerdlow whom supported us.. but since then we became a thorn in the cannabis movement due to our personal opions on certain initiatives that came out..
I am a patient whom is trying to deal with keeping up with the issues concerning cannabis and the laws behind it.. I am not in the working community and have not been for over 11 years since my illness came about.. but.. i do benifit from the cannabis..
Our association of pateints are those whom choose to be apart of us.. whom want to join us in growing in unity to obtain safe access to their cannabis.. for medical purposes for sure.. not just anyone off the street can just join in.. no can just anyone off the street can just obtain it.. when they first become a part of.. and had to wait for the harvest in order to receive.. and everyone participated within the group as well as out of pocket expense.. and received their equal share .. but now we are doing it diffrently but the same..
We have gone through allot over the 11 years that we have been apart of this cannabis community.. and I had the pleasure of meeting so many people in this movement..
But.. we all have diffrence of opions on this issue.. and to be kicked to the side of the street just because you disagree with some issues. are wrong..
I am a woman in my middle 50"s and mostly home due to circumstance.. and i have spent 10 years in being an activist but now i am mostly staying home.. its hard for me to spend time at expo's , and travel .. its hard for me to go to parties, meeting, ect.. to me this issue of cannbis is for my health only.. not to just party and have a great time.. i am not in the fast lane of society but in the very slow lane of the disabled …
Cannabis has been a big part of my life.. and my concern is that i do not want it to be taken away from me.. i can not afford to spend monies at the store.. the cost is too high for my income and most of my income takes care of putting a roof over my head and food in my families mouth.. so we grow our own.. and that is the way it is.. for us.. but there are many whom are unable to do what we are doing.. or have that property to keep it from the eye of the public, nor have the monies to keep it secured.. and it takes monies.. in order to do so.. but still.. cannabis is there for us and many.. and we are allow to grow our own, transport our own, and be reinbursed out of pocket expence… so.. what is this fuss about.. is it about getting more dispensaries up and running legally and also doing away with the patients grow for themselves.. if this is so. then i will not support the initiatives that come about unless we also are protected.. and still allow to
continue to grow our own.. and if the store fronts are able to sell their products , like all small business owned by a home owner should also be able to sell their products as well.. why is it only good for big corporations only, and do away with the mom and pop …
there are many farm owners whom grow fruit and vegitables and grapes that do sell , and many are small groups whom sell what they grow.. on a small scale.. why should we be any diffrent, if your going to go to a new way of doing things.. of course i am concern.. especially if this is going to take away from me and me obtaining my cannabis and not be able to grow my own,, or allow others in a small group of 20 to grow with us.. in unity.to fit our medical needs.. then this will be a problem.. and my vote do count .. .
I am not going to waste my life around this issue.. for i really do not know how much life i have in me.. and in reality no one really dose know.. when their time is up .. but sick people , even by our government are being treated like we are just wasted space amonst the living.. as they continue to take our programs away from us.. well.. if store fronts only are allowed, and only big farmers only are allowed to provide these store fronts with cannabis product then you are taking our freedom away from us and forcing us to depend upon the store to obtain our cannabis and pay taxes on it also.. but to put a tax on a patient/ or citizen whom grows for themselves or a few others is wrong..
i many not understand this initiative.. but i read it .. and i read it to try to understand what it really is about.. but my mind is simple now.. due to my illness.. and its hard for me sometimes to understand.. i am not afraid what those on this list may think of me.. on what i share.. but i share honestly of my insite is of my surroundings.. and i am not active in the activism anymore, nor do i go to meetings anymore.. but i stay incontact by reading what is out there on many list. and its confusing not just to me but many others..
I am a voter still .. and i stay up on this issue as much as my understanding would allow me to.. and my husband tries to explain to me over and over again.. but then its frustrating to him.. not that i blame him for my memory is out the window.. but what do you expect from someone that is working on dead braincells..lol.. anyway..
i have to share.. i have to let you know from a patients view of this issue.. and how important it is for me to continue utalizing cannbis.. for medical purposes.. but over the years things have changed.. in my view.. things have changed more so than most would have it outside of the community of cannbis.. lets regulate, lets control, lets profittize off of the cannabis.. that is how i am seeing it.. now everyone has a way of getting a recomendation easily than before when i got one.. it was hard.. to get one.. but now days everyone is able to receive.. lolol
Cannabis is now out there more so than ever.. in movies, in tv shows, in the news, now more so than ever.. cannabis has a voice.. and now we are going forward on trying to legalize cannbis.. for everyone to utalize.
Most that i have read on this list .. some say that using the medical term behind cannabis is a mokery.. a smoke screen .. and most are not really sick.. but use it in order to obtain cannabis.. which is true. so.. there is a solution out there.. and the big people in the know.. is going toward that new path in the cannabis world.. but all i ask is that you do not take my freedome away from me.. to grow my own.. to help others obtain that also can not afford the high prices due to their income.. .. i utalize allot of cannbis for my illness and have been since i have been growing.. and it benifits me and keeps my illness somewhat under control and i do not have to take all those pharmacuticle drugs that kept me in the dark pit and i have lost years of reality behind that.. and personally i do not want to walk that road again.. for no one…
I do not have monies to change the world, so to speak.. and no that many friends, due to me being homebound.. and i do have physical issus as well as mental issues.. and some people think i am really crazy at some times.. but what ever.. i am still a member of the cannabis movement, even if i am not part of it in form.. but i am in voice.. and i hope that more patients outside of the active part of the cannabis movement will come forth and voice their opions on this issue..
i agree that providers for thousands of people should not go through the court system.. and many have gone through the front lines and paid a big price in doing so.. but how many more must be going through this and having their families torn apart due to this issue.. one case .. Joe Grumbine and Joe have been found guilty.. and i must agree with them on the part of how they were treated in the court room .. and it was terrible to say the least.. I met Joe and Liz and even spent time with them.. but still this is tearing his family apart behind this issue.. as well as others whom also are facing the courts due to them being providers.. we the members of the cannabis movement should have a choice.. to deceide if we want to go to a store front to obtain, for most they feel safer in doing so.. instead of having a delivery service or being apart of a group grow, due to circumstance.. to say the least..
I am sorry that i am long winded on this .. i never intended to be.. but this is an important issue.. how can i vote to change what is.. if i do not completly understand it.. and i can not just vote yes to anything unless i understand how it is going to affect me and others in my shoes.. some are worse off then me.. more so. than i can imagine..
My heart is with those whom are now spending time in jail , or having thier children being ripped from their arms and taken away to only what they understand.. , but lets not forget the ones that have gone and killed someone or a couple whom had cannabis.. lets not forget those take advantage.. crime is everywhere,,no matter what it may be.. a jewlery store, a bank, a fast food resturant.. ect.. that is the fact.. its not just the cannabis..
For me.. its a medical issue.. that is important to me.. to others is non medical.. but i do know that more states are comming on board with the medical use of cannabis..
I understand that the younger generation and even some of the older generation wants to have fun.. but really.. booze is legal, tobacco is legal, and they kill many citizens .. but cannabis is allot healthier.. so to say the least .. i am totally torn on this issue of legalization…
i rather be able to grow it like i do my herbs and vegitables that i get from the store.. and not pay taxes.. just because i choose to grow ..or have to pay a high price just to be able to get permission to grow and have a home business.. .. a regular business never had to pay high just to be in business.. but with cannabis.. its a diffrent story.. now i feel you want to take my rights away from me.. and my freedom to grow my own…
anyway.. that is my insite.. right, wrong, or indiffent.. this is my voice on this issue..
anyway.. you all have a great New Year to come..
Thank you to those who have intro'ed yourselves.
If we were @ a convention meeting where we didn't know each other, say, we were all in a circle in a room, don't the rest of you feel like you'd offer your name & org connection? Or would you wear a mask & disguise your voice? Or offer your name but not share what org you were representing? Shouldn't we make the distinction between someone speaking for an org or for themselves? If I'm aware you are speaking for an org, I'm gonna listen differently which is not to say I don't hear an individual speaking for herself. If I see your .org suffix, shall I assume you are speaking for your group? If you don't have an .org suffix, is it safe to assume you are just speaking for yourself?
This IS an open place and cause I wanna know who you are, where you are coming from & how you relate to this movement, so I can put my own thinking into YOUR words, doesn't make me feel like I'm prying or asking too much of you. Assume the cops know about each & every one of us anyway! What is there to hide?
This is far from labeling, it is sharing with people with whom we have chosen to share concepts.
And, we should not assume, except perhaps for a couple names, that everyone here is known to others.
I offer these thoughts with love & peace & am motivated by a desire to keep moving this conversation forward.
I stand for the legalization of marijuana and the accessibility of MM. I stand for community control, which is to say, CORPORATE NOT. I've almost fifty adult years of activism (yeah, I'm old!) including arrests & prison time as a GI during Vietnam and a pot felony conviction in this decade. I am a co-founder of Veteran's Speakers Alliance of the SF Bay Area, a chef & visual artist.
We all have many, many common interests here and there is an incredible variety of strategies and tactics suggested in these conversations providing many directions for continued forward momentum. We don't have to agree on all of them but we must agree to be open and honest in our conversations.
Thanks for listening. Have a wonderful warm & illuminating weekend.
Veterans For Peace
"Sir, No Sir!"
"I think because I can't code. I'm an artist because I can't think enough."
On 12/23/11 8:56 AM, Letitia Pepper wrote:
In response to Hal Muskat's relevant query about the background of people sending info in to "save cannabis" :
I am an attorney, an activist and a patient.
I've been an attorney since 1982 when I passed the California bar.
I've been an activist since 1970 when I went to my first municipal land use-related meeting as a teenager with my mother and watched elected officials blatantly LIE to the audience in order to carry out their plan of developing, into a mall, one of the very rare California coastal wetlands near Carlsbad, California.
I've been a patient since 1993, when I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.
I've been a patient who uses cannabis as medicine since 2007, when I learned how cannabis helps people with so many different diseases and WHY it does.
I've been a cannabis activist and anti-lying-to-patients activist since 2010, when, as an activist, I intended to work on Prop. 19 to "legalize marijuana!" and, having then actually READ the damned thing, realized it was all a trick to take away patients' good, existing rights under Prop. 215.
And, while I was originally going to support and work to pass Repeal Cannabis Prohibition Act 2012, after re-reading that initiative and thinking about it, I realized that I'd missed something very significant that it does almost as an after thought to "repealing prohibition":
"s..email@example.com" <s..firstname.lastname@example.org> Dec 26 08:24AM -0800
I stopped responding because you are a lost cause and an endless argument based in loose interpretation and semantic wordplay. That shit is tiring. For those of us who live here in earth, and who do not see everything fun and enjoyable as a medical procedure, we have real work to do. When you come back to reality maybe we can finish the conversation. No sense in arguing with the inherently lost and in denial.
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
Sent: Sun, Dec 25, 2011 18:41:57 GMT+00:00
> OK, then…
> I'm not a bawling rambling drunk… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects
> of alcohol for my social anxiety disorder.
I'm not a chain smoker… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects of tobacco
> for my unobstructed airway syndrome.
> I'm not hyper… I'm experiencing the medicinal effects of coffee for my
“No valid conclusion as to the use of a thing can be drawn from its abuse.”
Ancient Latin maxim, Stockdale v. Hansard, Lord Denman
> You're confusing "whether it has medical effects" with "whether people are
> using it medically".
You are focusing on the abuse of drugs as an excuse to keep our community
I am focusing on the potential proper use of drugs as a method of keeping
our community united.
> While you may not see a difference, the public does.
"*They who have put out the people's eyes, reproach them for their blindness
*" – John Milton
Russ Belville <s..email@example.com> Dec 27 12:14PM -0800
You know what doesn't serve the movement well? Organizing to defeat Prop
19. Or giving aid and comfort to those who do.
NORML Outreach Coordinator
Social Networks: @RadicalRuss and @NORMLNet
Shipping: 4110 SE Hawthorne Blvd. #161 – Portland, OR 97214
Phone:(phone#-removed) – Fax:(phone#-removed)
*Keep fighting only for medical marijuana and marijuana will become medical
*Hemp’s not illegal because marijuana is a drug; marijuana’s illegal
because hemp is an oil.*
*The most amazing thing about cannabis is its ability to addle the brains
of those who do not use it.*
On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 8:20 PM, William G. Panzer
Sjss <s..firstname.lastname@example.org> Dec 28 12:19PM -0800
Not saying I am
Organizing or oppose rather that respect of each otter is a must.
Sent from my iPhone
Mickey Martin <s..email@example.com> Dec 27 07:27AM -0800
Word games never kept anyone out of jail
Posted by Mickey Martin on December 27th, 2011
Triple Word Score?
So the debate rages on after Steve Deangelo dropped the “I do not believe in legalization of cannabis for recreational use” card on the final episode of Weed Wars. The Deangelo brothers have been called turncoats, hypocrites, and busters by America’s cannabis community for their inability to manage the message and willingness to throw the entire legalization effort out the window, in what one can only assume is an action of self-preservation under the attack of Federal pressure, and the pressure of being the new American TV sweetheart.
So then Steve tried to walk back his (and his brother’s) disastrous statements in major media outlets by stating this:
The term “recreational cannabis” was imposed from outside our movement. It’s time to define our own lexicon of cannabis. -Steve Deangelo
Is that what the fuck you were doing? Maybe that is what you should have said. Instead of saying “I do not support legalization of cannabis for recreational use,” you should have said “I do not like the term recreational.” And when you say “our” who exactly are you talking about? If I were to define my own “lexicon” of cannabis it would not be intertwined with the medical industry. The term “medicine” carries too much baggage in our society to deem all cannabis use as such. You may not like the term “recreational,” but that is the common terminology being used to define non-medical cannabis use.
So let us look at this evil word “recreation” that has been imposed upon us.
rec·re·a·tion/ˌrekrēˈāSHən/ (noun)- Activity done for enjoyment when one is not working.
Well I can see where your issue is. Your employees use cannabis for enjoyment WHILE working, so I can see why you do not like this terminology. I mean, when Terryn ate the edible in episode 4 while working he did not seem to be seeking health and wellness; nor when he sat there looking confused and messing up the ladies order did he seem well. He seemed confused and disoriented, while performing customer service…..so I can see how you think “recreational” does not fit because of the “not working” thing. But that does not seem to be the rub with you guys.
Here is what Andrew Deangelo said in a tweet that further confuses the situation:
Recreation is an activity, not a commodity. Try to ingest recreation, just try it. It cannot be done. -Andrew Deangelo
So this is where you want to hang your hat on this debacle? On the term recreation? So you are saying that because one cannot ingest “recreation” that your statement against legalizing cannabis for recreational use is somehow more valid or less offensive? I do not think so….under the same premise you cannot “ingest” health and wellness either. Just try it. It cannot be done. It is a state or condition…not a commodity. So what was the point you were trying to make again?
Word games never kept anyone out of jail. While you fuckers are over there dancing around the semantics of what is recreation and what is wellness, and if because recreation makes you feel well is it also medicinal and can we sell weed to anyone who wants to recreate because they are actually performing health and wellness activities?…blah, blah, blah. STFU! You cannot decide that you want to play word games in order to dance around the fact that you threw the entire legalization effort under the bus. America did not hear that you think recreational is a bad “lexicon.” What they heard is that you “do not support legalization.” That is it. You see…you actually have to change the lexicon BEFORE shitting all over it. You have to make the distinction between your displeasure with the term recreational and your preference for health and wellness; and on top of that, you have to get people to buy into that. NEWSFLASH: People are not buying into
Instead, you decided to shit on the term that most of America uses to describe non-medical and non-therapeutic uses of cannabis. The only impression that the public took away from the final message of your big show was “those guys do not support legalization.” They are not sitting there pondering your definition or disapproval of the word “recreational.” They heard the message….”DO NOT SUPPORT LEGALIZATION.” And that is a very dangerous message right now, as we inch closer and closer to that goal.
Look….I prefer the term “adult enjoyable use”; others prefer “social use” or “personal use.” The fact is that it is okay to like those terms and use them, but realize that this is not the term most people use. Me and my wannabe hipster friends call cars “whips”; but if I call my mom and say “Hey ma…I got a new whip,” she would politely respond with “what is a whip?” Why? Because this is not the common terminology most understood by wide portions of our society. We use the term “car” because everyone understands that. The same way everyone understands “recreational vs. medical” uses of cannabis…..well, everyone but you guys apparently.
You can continue to play the game of bullshit semantics if you like, but the fact is that you made a fatal error in your messaging. And instead of manning up and saying that you misspoke or were mistaken, you continue to take us on some unwanted field trip to the health and wellness factory that is Harborside’s dreamland. Instead of saying, “That is not what I meant,” you continue to try and convince us all that we are wrong and that your new found definition for being “whacked out on edibles” at a softball game is the right way to go. It just does not hold water and you guys should scrap the bullshit and stand up for what is right….legalization of cannabis for whatever fucking type of use you want…recreation, social, enjoyable, adult, health and wellness…whatever. We are grown ass people. We should not have to dance around some stupid word games to make people understand that legalizing cannabis is the right thing to do. You guys
failed to bring that message. Your message instead was “Fuck legalization.” And that is what is so sad.
T-Comp Consulting Director
***The views expressed in this communication are not necessarily the views of T-Comp Consulting, Tainted Compassion, West Coast Cannabis, Cannabis Warrior any other group I am affiliated with.***